Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] - Page 44

**Mick** · 06-03-2008, 20:23

Hmm - Telegraph news item says we should put up with Phorm or expect higher prices?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected...dltrack108.xml

Please someone correct me if its not saying that at all ...

SMHarman · 06-03-2008, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by none

Should have also mentioned that right here on this very board they said that

Quote:

“If you are not part of the system ie opted out no data will be processed by phorm. I really hope that's clear.”

Mmm yes clear... clear as mud.

See here (comment 15) - http://www.bobpiper.co.uk/2008/03/theyve_got_phorm.php

YOU SIMPLY CANNOT take on face value what this company tells you.

Im with Sirius and RizzyKing, VM introduce this, then I too will be acting accordingly.

Maybe hiding behind smoke and mirrors here but could this equally read?

“If you are not part of the system ie opted out data will be processed by VM using phorm code on specific media farm hardware located in the UK on VM premises, however none of this data will then be passed to phorm to enable then to serve back advertising through OIX.”
Just a thought.
Equally I am typing this using a dell computer running microsoft XP and MSIE. In making this posting no data is being processed by microsoft or Dell but this posting could not happen without microsoft code being involved.

none · 06-03-2008, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Hmm - Telegraph news item says we should put up with Phorm or expect higher prices?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected...dltrack108.xml

Please someone correct me if its not saying that at all ...

Its certainly hinting at that.

But you could give me a 20MB or even the new 50MB pipe for free, subsidized by the op-in of Phorm and I'd still walk away.

Would I be prepared to pay more for a Phorm-free ISP? You betchya!

Sirius · 06-03-2008, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Hmm - Telegraph news item says we should put up with Phorm or expect higher prices?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected...dltrack108.xml

Please someone correct me if its not saying that at all ...

Thats how i read it.

Btw Mick

Thanks for allowing us to expose the spin that is Phorm and VirginMedia. I did not expect them to run away that fast

06-03-2008, 20:38

Can I ask when all this is to start please?

none · 06-03-2008, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Maybe hiding behind smoke and mirrors here but could this equally read?

Ã¢â‚¬Å“If you are not part of the system ie opted out data will be processed by VM using phorm code on specific media farm hardware located in the UK on VM premises, however none of this data will then be passed to phorm to enable then to serve back advertising through OIX.Ã¢â‚¬Â code being involved.

good point, which is why i originally asked

Quote:

Originally Posted by none

So for example If I am opted out (via your lousy cookie), does any data sent FROM my machine go through Phorm systems or servers (at ANY stage) in order to load a web page, send an email or IM. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a simple enough question, but please be as technical as you like when replying.

emphisis on the 'Phorm systems or servers (at ANY stage)' part, to which they replied

Quote:

If you are not part of the system ie opted out no data will be processed by phorm

that reply wouldn't be quite so quite truthful now if what you (SMHarman) said were correct.

Toto · 06-03-2008, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Hmm - Telegraph news item says we should put up with Phorm or expect higher prices?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected...dltrack108.xml

Please someone correct me if its not saying that at all ...

Which is exactly what I have been saying in this thread.

We may not like this system, but the margins are so tight, we may have no choice. Although..........VM's margins are better than others.

isf · 06-03-2008, 20:46

The issue isn't the ads, it's the harvesting of clickstream data and a cookie isn't cutting it. Multiple HTTP clients across multiple computers makes for a hell of an opt-out procedure. I looked at the webwise opt-out page and it uses javascript to set the cookie, that's neither guaranteed to be enabled or even supported (netsurf, dillo, lynx etc..) and there's issues for other client software like wget and curl.

Since techteam/phorm claim this is network level technology, why is the opt-out not handled per subscriber at the network level by the ISP?

**Mick** · 06-03-2008, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius

Thats how i read it.

Btw Mick

Thanks for allowing us to expose the spin that is Phorm and VirginMedia. I did not expect them to run away that fast

Virgin Media played no part in Phorm coming here as far as I know, there has been no contact from them and to be fair you cannot expect someone to be still answering questions at 8 'o' Clock in the evening if they work office hours 9 - 5.

I respect the fact and understand that there is anger, even I am angry but we have to at least give people a chance to have their say. But if we start to get hostile or start demanding this, this or this. It doesn't get anywhere.

none · 06-03-2008, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by isf

Since techteam/phorm claim this is network level technology, why is the opt-out not handled per subscriber at the network level by the ISP?

That is a bloody good question and should defiantly be one of the questions directed to their tech team

Sirius · 06-03-2008, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Virgin Media played no part in Phorm coming here as far as I know, there has been no contact from them and to be fair you cannot expect someone to be still answering questions at 8 'o' Clock in the evening if they work office hours 9 - 5.

I respect the fact and understand that there is anger, even I am angry but we have to at least give people a chance to have their say. But if we start to get hostile or start demanding this, this or this. It doesn't get anywhere.

Mick

I appreciate what you tried to do here honest. I just hate being taken for a ride by a company that i have had dealings with before when it comes to their spy-ware. I lost a lot of data due to the infection they gave me.

**Mick** · 06-03-2008, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius

Mick

I appreciate what you tried to do here honest. I just hate being taken for a ride by a company that i have had dealings with before when it comes to their spy-ware. I lost a lot of data due to the infection they gave me.

I know but there has to be at least some credit shown for having the balls to come and face the public head on esp on here - Look at it this way. I have been banging on at Virgin/ntl for years to come and have someone answer posts in an official capacity on here, they always keep telling me it cannot be done etc.

In a sane world, it shouldn't be Phorm coming here telling us what is happening - Phorm is not our ISP - Virgin Media is and they should be explaining things regarding setups their end. Agree?

Sirius · 06-03-2008, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

I know but there has to be at least some credit shown for having the balls to come and face the public head on esp on here - Look at it this way. I have been banging on at Virgin/ntl for years to come and have someone answer posts in an official capacity on here, they always keep telling me it cannot be done etc.

In a sane world, it shouldn't be Phorm coming here telling us what is happening - Phorm is not our ISP - Virgin Media is and they should be explaining things regarding setups their end. Agree?

Fully agree and thats why VM will not be my ISP soon.

none · 06-03-2008, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

I know but there has to be at least some credit shown for having the balls to come and face the public head on esp on here

Dont be so quick to give credit.

They come here because its in their own selfish interest to do so, nothing more. By trying to appease the angry crowd, they hope less users will leave their ISP. This matters because if there were a mass boycott of all things Phorm, their business model is gone as no ISP will then touch them for fear of losing customers.

markt50 · 06-03-2008, 21:17

Even I agree that it shows some bottle for them to come on here and I have to give them respect for that. A part of me thinks that this is a combination of a misunderstanding of the technology combined with some bad initial communication on Phorms part. It seems this has caught them on the hop a bit.

It doesn't mean I'm any happier about what Phorm does, and I'm definately to yet be convinced by their arguments, my stance is that I will still be looking for a new ISP and telling anyone else who cares to do the same thing because I'm just as angry at Virgin for the way it looks like they are allowing it to be implemented (i.e. the default of being opted in).