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Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
View Poll Results: Will you be opting out of the Virgin Ad Deal?
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Old 10-03-2008, 17:20   #946
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by none View Post
make that 31% - linky
36% now.. it's like watching a sinking ship

Who'd have thought shares could be so much fun.
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Old 10-03-2008, 17:26   #947
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

wow a loss of almost 5% in just 4 minutes, thats pretty bad. Should make for an interesting discussion at Phorms Shareholders meeting on Thursday.
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Old 10-03-2008, 17:33   #948
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

in other news VMs stock is rising (now falling back a bit again), but thats more to do with the potential sale as i reported elswere the other day.

Neil might just get his comfy chair bonus after all ,i wonder if it happens ,weather Neil will still be CEO and what effect if any it might have on this Phorm deal...to many ifs right now.

http://www.businessweek.com/investor...amp%3B+markets
"Virgin Media (VMED) rises on reports that Richard Branson could scoop $750 million if Virgin Media is sold to U.S.

private equity groups, which are actively considering launching a takeover bid, despite continuing turmoil in the credit markets.

According to a private document entitled "Project Coaxial" - seen by The Observer - Blackstone, Cinven, KKR and Providence Equity are prepared to offer $6-$7.5 billion for the company, in which Branson's Virgin group holds a 10.5%, reports The Observer. "
http://investing.businessweek.com/re...sp?symbol=VMED
Virgin Media, Inc.

(VMED:NASDAQ)

LAST $14.69 USD CHANGE TODAY +0.80 5.76% VOLUME 3.4M

OPEN $15.76
PREVIOUS CLOSE $13.89
DAY HIGH $15.76
DAY LOW $14.34
...
"
i wonder what the other ISPs prices are doing, anyone checked?
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Old 10-03-2008, 17:36   #949
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbadcol View Post
Hello are Ernst & Young either

1) a Hi tech computer company

2) Computer security experts

3) Accountants

phone 0799 92761 for your chance to win 10,000 pounds

My question to Phorm
How much did you pay Ernst & Young for the audit?
Have you had an audit done by any independant computer security experts?

(for Phorm who are not based in the UK. Accountancy audits + GMTV = coverup)

If you connect all the spin put out by Phorm, to a power generator could you could solve the world energy crisis
http://www.ey.com/global/content.nsf/resources/Global_Review_07/$file/EY_Global_Review_2007.pdf
Page 37?
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Old 10-03-2008, 17:40   #950
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Blimey, their stock is down 34.91% as of 16:11. I wish I could say that's because of the backlash to their scheme, but unfortunately I think it might be more to do with some board room shifting (I saw somewhere they were planning to change various board rules/start issuing extra shares etc) than the righteous indignation of e.g. the 2,417 people who have signed the Downing Street petition.

2,417 in a few days is pretty impressive for those petitions - it normally takes quite a lot longer for them to get that big. This really seems to have struck a nerve with net users...

[EDIT: Oops, so slooooooow to post ]
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Old 10-03-2008, 17:43   #951
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barkotron View Post
Blimey, their stock is down 34.91% as of 16:11. I wish I could say that's because of the backlash to their scheme, but unfortunately I think it might be more to do with some board room shifting (I saw somewhere they were planning to change various board rules/start issuing extra shares etc)
...or maybe some City-types have heard on the grapevine which way the Information Commissioner's Office is leaning on their little scheme..
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Old 10-03-2008, 17:47   #952
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogodon View Post
Definitely an opt-out service from VM. Received the following from VM in response to my enquiry:
(I have removed personal details of both myself and the respondee)

....

I can ensure you that all our customers will have the option to opt of
this program should they wish too. As soon as Phorm comes into play all
our customers will be made aware of how to opt out of the service. I
hope this information is what you were hoping for.
....
By opt-out though, do they mean just the opt out cookie which still means that you are still going through Phorm services and they are still monitoring, just not actively displaying personalised adverts (e.g. not really a full opt-out), or like TalkTalk has said to do where opting out means completely bypassing the Phorm servers at the ISP level and getting a real opt-out so you have nothing to do with Phorm at all if you opt-out?

I would hope for the latter, but I fear it is likely to be the former
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Old 10-03-2008, 18:11   #953
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogodon View Post
Definitely an opt-out service from VM. Received the following from VM in response to my enquiry:
(I have removed personal details of both myself and the respondee)

-----Original Message-----
From: >Web Team [mailto:webteam@telewest.co.uk]
Sent: 10 March 2008 11:01
To: ******
Subject: Re: Virgin Media Helpsite Webform - Customer Feedback TGEN (KMM7385980I28237L0KM)

REFERENCE : *****

Dear *****

Thank you for your e-mail dated 5 March 2008 regarding our partnership
with Phorm. I'm sorry its taken longer than expected to get back to you.

I can ensure you that all our customers will have the option to opt of
this program should they wish too. As soon as Phorm comes into play all
our customers will be made aware of how to opt out of the service. I
hope this information is what you were hoping for.

If you have further queries regarding this matter or any other issue,
please use the link provided below:

www.virginmedia.com/contact

Please note if you reply directly to this e-mail your response will not
be received.

Kind regards


*****
E-Contact Team
Virgin Media
Consider that information correct at the time of going to the press, having seen those kinds of emails before, then conflicting information given by the same team, it is very much a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

Not their fault, they only publish what they are told.
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Old 10-03-2008, 18:53   #954
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto View Post
Consider that information correct at the time of going to the press, having seen those kinds of emails before, then conflicting information given by the same team, it is very much a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

Not their fault, they only publish what they are told.
the way that email reads VM hell bent in going ahead and self destruction.

Also I feel either VM / PHORM or both are lieing. Someone keeping a log of either mac addresses or IP for this mystical random number to target us.

PHORM must think we are idiots.

Now the way I see it if it is IP address based then would assume I can kick the bloomin heads by changing MY IP with my router there confusing the destination.

I have also thought about a system idea but it needs to find out the way they targets us.

The Dephormation addon is good but I wondered if it could be addapted to cause a mis-information mismatch.

Allow them to infest us manipulate there devious ways and return back a false random number to try and report false information.
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Old 10-03-2008, 18:55   #955
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barkotron View Post
Blimey, their stock is down 34.91% as of 16:11. I wish I could say that's because of the backlash to their scheme, but unfortunately I think it might be more to do with some board room shifting (I saw somewhere they were planning to change various board rules/start issuing extra shares etc) than the righteous indignation of e.g. the 2,417 people who have signed the Downing Street petition.

2,417 in a few days is pretty impressive for those petitions - it normally takes quite a lot longer for them to get that big. This really seems to have struck a nerve with net users...

[EDIT: Oops, so slooooooow to post ]
I don't know, after reading some of the 'discussion' on that shares site here the bad press does indeed seem to be a definite factor.

A comment by a user on that site was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Ed
very good chance this company could be in big trouble regardless of any legal action taken by users (such action would be against isp not this company)

the problem is the companys model of how it wants to work (cant really call it a business model) is based on snopping and spying on people none who want it.

if people carry on getting upset then it will start to get through to Branson and people at BT and they will drop this and put spin on doing that to win back customers.
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Old 10-03-2008, 19:02   #956
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

How secure is my website forums from Phorm?

I posted the following elsewhere, but have yet to receive a reply from anyone at Phorm:

Quote:
Dear Phorm Comms Team,

I own and administer a phpBB support forum for people with a specific type of physical/mental health problem. Only members are allowed access to the (advert-free) forums. Am I right in saying that the Phorm software located at the ISP will be able to access the forums and log key words - which I presume would include usernames and aliases - from those forums? If so, then I feel this is a security risk, and my response would be - "All information located within my webforums is of a highly confidential nature. Phorm is not a member of the forums, nor do I give permission for Phorm to become a member, nor do I give permission for any Phorm software (located at members ISP's or elsewhere) to access my forums".

In other words, will there be any way to block any Phorm software from accessing my website and forums? If not, surely this breaches the DPA, and my responsibilities under the DPA?

Many thanks in advance for your response.

AK.
After having read all the posts on this thread, I see that virtually no-one has brought up this aspect of the problem with Phorm. Forums that are visible to Member only ensure that no-one who isn't a member gets access - including bots as I have a total bot exclusion in my robots.txt file. If Phorm accesses my forums without permission they are as far as I can tell, falling foul of the DPA. Seeing as Phorm does not obey robots.txt comands, maybe all of us who own webstes and forums, and wish to keep them safe from prying eyes should send Phorm a DPA notice specifically refusing to allow them access?

Another point regarding this - phorm say they only collect regularly occuring key words from webpages, the rest is striiped out - well, usernames and aliases are regularly occuring keywords within forum pages, so how would the phorm software know that 'manxminx' is my username, and therefore is a piece of personally identifying data?

Why should I have to buy a security certificate to make my forums https? In other words, why should I have to pay to block Phorm? Website and forum owners should be able to opt out, yet no-one, Phorm included has brought this up. And what about members of social networking sites that have made their profiles friends only? If one of their friends use a Phorm enabled ISP, then Phorm has access to those private pages . . . .

Ali (Note to Phorm- that's my name, which is personal data as it identifies me. I do not give permission for Phorm to scan any personally identifying data within this forum post).
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Old 10-03-2008, 19:29   #957
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

You make a very good point. I belong to two user groups where technical information which is commercially valuable is available only to those who pay a subscription. As the information contained within is only protected with username and password, why should a profiler be allowed to mirror what I pay for.

IMO it is an unwarranted and unwanted piggy back intrusion into areas that they have no paid for rights of entry. Of course they may argue that whatever is seen is instantly discarded but the fact remains that it is scanned and something of commercial value extracted albeit supposedly just advertising profiling.
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Old 10-03-2008, 19:29   #958
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart C View Post
Postcodes (and for that matter, addresses) are largely text, so would be picked up by Phorm..
From my understanding they will not be taking data from form fields which is where details like this are entered. So unlikely to be picked up.
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Old 10-03-2008, 19:43   #959
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle View Post
the way that email reads VM hell bent in going ahead and self destruction.

Also I feel either VM / PHORM or both are lieing. Someone keeping a log of either mac addresses or IP for this mystical random number to target us.

PHORM must think we are idiots.

Now the way I see it if it is IP address based then would assume I can kick the bloomin heads by changing MY IP with my router there confusing the destination.

I have also thought about a system idea but it needs to find out the way they targets us.

The Dephormation addon is good but I wondered if it could be addapted to cause a mis-information mismatch.

Allow them to infest us manipulate there devious ways and return back a false random number to try and report false information.
Well with so much conflicting information, or downright none at all its understandable.

I have to say this though, cookies do not need IP information passed to them to work. Ther's no point in going into the technicalities of my statement, as there is plenty of information out there. PHPSESSION (sp?) cookies, similar to those used on this site do not need IP information, just a session specific identifier.

I am not saying that Phorm aren't getting IP information, because many will not believe me, not even sure if I know for certain, I am just saying that setting cookies in a browser session is a lot less covert than people think.
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Old 10-03-2008, 19:50   #960
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayceef1 View Post
From my understanding they will not be taking data from form fields which is where details like this are entered. So unlikely to be picked up.
The fact is that people will perceive this to be Spyware even if it turns out not to be. The mere fact that this company has been involved with Spyware and Root kits is where they will ultimately fail as a company and a trusted part of the system.

The trust they need in this product will never be achieved.
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