Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs

Welsh 16 year olds get the vote
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-12-2019, 11:24   #31
Sephiroth
Simples
 
Sephiroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: Vivid 200;Hub 3 MM; ASUS RT-AC68U. BT Infinity2; Tivo; V6; XL Phone; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 6,719
Sephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze array
Sephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze array
Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
It’s an arbitrary line at 16 just as much as it is 18. People go on about “world wisdom” achieved by 16 and 17 year olds without any real evidence for it.

Why don’t we restrict the franchise to the well educated? Property owners? Landed gentry? They’re all obviously ridiculous ideas. However so is the notion that someone is so much wiser simply because they are older.
Don’t be silly. It’s an axiom that the older you are the greater wisdom you have gathered. From that flows the valid hypothesis that you have very much less wisdom at 16 or 18. Hence the debate about giving the vote to impressionable youth who cannot fully exercise sound political judgement.

I know what bits of the above you’ll pick out to challenge, but most people know that you are being uselessly provocative.

Shall we meet for a curry some day?
__________________
Seph.

My advice is at your risk.
Sephiroth is online now   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 03-12-2019, 12:41   #32
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,379
jfman has reached the bronze age
jfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze age
Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

One could equally argue that the media coverage of many issues indicates just how impressionable the entire electorate is - with minor issues inflated in the absence of evidence.

Even outwith the political sphere - the MMR vaccine is one example of the people being influenced against the evidence.
jfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 13:02   #33
Hugh
Hic Sunt Dracones
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 63
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 33,633
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
Don’t be silly. It’s an axiom that the older you are the greater wisdom you have gathered. From that flows the valid hypothesis that you have very much less wisdom at 16 or 18. Hence the debate about giving the vote to impressionable youth who cannot fully exercise sound political judgement.

I know what bits of the above you’ll pick out to challenge, but most people know that you are being uselessly provocative.

Shall we meet for a curry some day?
It's only an axiom if it's true, otherwise it's circular reasoning...

I know quite a few older people who seem to get less wise as they get older, who refuse to entertain new ideas or thoughts or approaches, and are quite fixed and rigid in their thinking - wisdom is experience, knowledge, and good judgement, not just having lived longer.
__________________
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
Hugh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 13:46   #34
Sephiroth
Simples
 
Sephiroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: Vivid 200;Hub 3 MM; ASUS RT-AC68U. BT Infinity2; Tivo; V6; XL Phone; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 6,719
Sephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze array
Sephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze array
Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

So, you can cho off at each end and you have the rump which matches the axiom.
__________________
Seph.

My advice is at your risk.
Sephiroth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 17:08   #35
Hugh
Hic Sunt Dracones
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 63
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 33,633
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
So, you can cho off at each end and you have the rump which matches the axiom.
Again, only if you take your initial premise as true (which I don't), and then accept your secondary premise (which, again, I don't).

I believe that wisdom comes from self-insight (the ability to understand that you don't know everything), and anything you do know could be proven incorrect by different information and understandings, self-awareness of yourself in the context of the era you live in and and your family history (as we are all shaped by our experiences), understanding that priorities and values(including your own) are not absolute, and an awareness of life’s ambiguities.

tl:dr - we don't know everything, we should realise we don't know everything, we should try to always learn more, and try not to think in absolutes.

ymmv
__________________
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
Hugh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 19:38   #36
Damien
Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
 
Damien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 29,260
Damien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver bling
Damien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver bling
Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

You should be much more suspicious of someone who thinks they have everything figured out than those who openly admit ignorance.

(I, of course, do know everything but that's a coincidence)
Damien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 19:46   #37
Sephiroth
Simples
 
Sephiroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: Vivid 200;Hub 3 MM; ASUS RT-AC68U. BT Infinity2; Tivo; V6; XL Phone; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 6,719
Sephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze array
Sephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze arraySephiroth has a bronze array
Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Again, only if you take your initial premise as true (which I don't), and then accept your secondary premise (which, again, I don't).

I believe that wisdom comes from self-insight (the ability to understand that you don't know everything), and anything you do know could be proven incorrect by different information and understandings, self-awareness of yourself in the context of the era you live in and and your family history (as we are all shaped by our experiences), understanding that priorities and values(including your own) are not absolute, and an awareness of life’s ambiguities.

tl:dr - we don't know everything, we should realise we don't know everything, we should try to always learn more, and try not to think in absolutes.

ymmv
.... and there we have it: wisdom.
__________________
Seph.

My advice is at your risk.
Sephiroth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 20:19   #38
papa smurf
vox populi vox dei
 
papa smurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 10,618
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
You should be much more suspicious of someone who thinks they have everything figured out than those who openly admit ignorance.

(I, of course, do know everything but that's a coincidence)
“Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
― Albert Einstein
__________________
links posted from news sources are not necessarily my opinion
i don't have the time or the crayons to keep explaining this
papa smurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 23:00   #39
Pierre
The Dark Satanic Mills
 
Pierre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 7,908
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

Well it wasn’t so long ago they were down ‘pit so why not?
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
Pierre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 06:20   #40
denphone
Still alive and fighting
 
denphone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 2 V6 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 52,212
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Well it wasn’t so long ago they were down ‘pit so why not?
At the age of 7 in some cases until later it became illegal for a boy under 12 to work down a mine.
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
denphone is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 11:00   #41
OLD BOY
Experience is everything
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes; Ultimate oomph; Now TV, Amazon and Netflix; VM broadband and landline
Posts: 10,187
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
At the age of 7 in some cases until later it became illegal for a boy under 12 to work down a mine.
Just as well jfman wasn't around then as he would have been campaigning for 7-year-olds to have the vote!
OLD BOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 11:05   #42
denphone
Still alive and fighting
 
denphone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 2 V6 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 52,212
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Just as well jfman wasn't around then as he would have been campaigning for 7-year-olds to have the vote!
l somehow doubt it OB.
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
denphone is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 11:41   #43
papa smurf
vox populi vox dei
 
papa smurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 10,618
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
At the age of 7 in some cases until later it became illegal for a boy under 12 to work down a mine.
Once Arthur Scargill got involved no one was actually working down the mines
__________________
links posted from news sources are not necessarily my opinion
i don't have the time or the crayons to keep explaining this
papa smurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 23:33   #44
Gavin78
Ice Cold
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Leeds, Seacroft
Age: 41
Services: XL TV M Phone 200MB BB
Posts: 1,499
Gavin78 is just so famous around these partsGavin78 is just so famous around these partsGavin78 is just so famous around these partsGavin78 is just so famous around these partsGavin78 is just so famous around these partsGavin78 is just so famous around these partsGavin78 is just so famous around these partsGavin78 is just so famous around these partsGavin78 is just so famous around these partsGavin78 is just so famous around these partsGavin78 is just so famous around these partsGavin78 is just so famous around these partsGavin78 is just so famous around these partsGavin78 is just so famous around these partsGavin78 is just so famous around these parts
Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

16 year olds can be easily influenced as well
Gavin78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 22:00   #45
Hugh
Hic Sunt Dracones
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 63
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 33,633
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: Welsh 16 year olds get the vote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin78 View Post
16 year olds can be easily influenced as well
So can 65 year olds.
__________________
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
Hugh is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 19:03.


Server: xenon.zmnt.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.