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Old 19-12-2022, 21:54   #2311
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post


What immunity?
Thought you weren't posting on this thread any more.


And your argument really needs to be better than that.
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Old 19-12-2022, 22:25   #2312
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Re: Coronavirus

I think that jfman is testing the notion that the vaccines provide immunity from Covid, which they don't. People will still catch Covid but the vaccines reduce severity.
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Old 19-12-2022, 22:39   #2313
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
I think that jfman is testing the notion that the vaccines provide immunity from Covid, which they don't. People will still catch Covid but the vaccines reduce severity.
The thing is that I wasn't specifically talking about covid but any immunity to any virus in general.


Some people will of course be naturally less susceptible to it irrespective of previous infection or vaccination. Some people will be vaccinated but not immune (to any extent). How much do models think about these things?
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Old 19-12-2022, 22:45   #2314
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
I think that jfman is testing the notion that the vaccines provide immunity from Covid, which they don't. People will still catch Covid but the vaccines reduce severity.
This is correct. I have Covid at the moment and due to the vaccines plus the milder current variant, it equates to a bad cold. The concern is where the virus mutates next. The more people spreading & catching Covid, the more likely it is to mutate. The hope & expectation is that it continue to get milder but this is not guaranteed.

The very large numbers of people currently getting Covid in China where they expect deaths in the 100,000's is a worry. That number of infections mean more chance of mutations.
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Old 19-12-2022, 22:51   #2315
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by nffc View Post
Thought you weren't posting on this thread any more.
You thought wrong.

Quote:
And your argument really needs to be better than that.
It really doesn’t.

---------- Post added at 22:51 ---------- Previous post was at 22:50 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
I think that jfman is testing the notion that the vaccines provide immunity from Covid, which they don't. People will still catch Covid but the vaccines reduce severity.
Neither does catching Covid.
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Old 20-12-2022, 01:02   #2316
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
I think that jfman is testing the notion that the vaccines provide immunity from Covid, which they don't. People will still catch Covid but the vaccines reduce severity.
Immunity in a sense does not exist.

People who are 'immune' to a virus still 'catch it', but their body's defence system neutralizes it before any damage is apparent, or done, so you see no effect, and thus appear to be immune. You are not immune, you are just really good it fighting it.

Vaccines train your defences to react to a virus. in effect they provide an extra level of defence (for some) that you would not otherwise have had because they help the body learn how to fight the [real] virus when it attacks.

However, despite this defence boost, some will still fall victim to the effects of the virus, although [generally] it will seem less severe. Catching covid does a similar thing, your body learns how to fight it, and is thus better prepared when it encounters it again.

This is all basic stuff, its why vaccines exist, not sure why people try to argue against it.
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Old 20-12-2022, 08:59   #2317
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Re: Coronavirus

There seems to be some confusion between immunity and sterilising immunity here. The current COVID vaccines are reasonably good at raising immunity as measured in antibody levels and immune cell (T and B cell) responses. They might not recent infection but certainly shorten the length and severity of the disease.

Sterilising immunity prevents infection. For, this, you need antibodies at the infection sites, namely the nose, throat and lungs. The current vaccines are not very effective here. To get sterilising immunity, you need to vaccinate at the potential infection sites. Vaccines which are good at this include polio, smallpox, nasal flu (flumist) It is a huge challenge to make vaccines that work at the sites of infection as these can be quite a harsh environment. If you want to do something quick or ‘good enough’, injectables are the way forward.
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Old 28-12-2022, 21:46   #2318
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Re: Coronavirus

Should the UK be introducing COVID checks/controls on travellers from China given the surge in coronavirus there and the plan to permit travel in and out of the Country?
Haven’t we been here before?
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Old 28-12-2022, 22:07   #2319
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
Should the UK be introducing COVID checks/controls on travellers from China given the surge in coronavirus there and the plan to permit travel in and out of the Country?
Haven’t we been here before?
If we aren’t going to do anything beyond that, the obvious question is what would be the point?
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Old 28-12-2022, 23:31   #2320
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Re: Coronavirus

The first flight tested this week from Beijing to Italy had an astounding 52% of passengers test positive for coronavirus

https://onemileatatime.com/news/chin...sitivity-rate/

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-pat...ifted-12775498

Good luck to me, I teach a class of 500 of which 80% come from China...

When do we get the 5-th vaccination?
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Old 29-12-2022, 07:44   #2321
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
Should the UK be introducing COVID checks/controls on travellers from China given the surge in coronavirus there and the plan to permit travel in and out of the Country?
Haven’t we been here before?

There is absolutely no point unless you put all arrivals into quarantine which then has the obvious effect of quarantine hotels becoming incubators for the virus anyway.


As we're not going to pay for hotels to put all travellers from China in for a week, and as the WHO advice seems to be mixed (but mainly towards not) on closing borders anyway, it doesn't seem worth it.


This isn't a new virus any more, it's the same omicron strains which are going around the rest of the world anyway, due to omicron and people being vaccinated as well as a lot of people having the virus previously we have more immunity levels than in 2020.


Not really sure what any border restrictions on China would actually achieve in relation to the costs (financial and otherwise) of putting them in to begin with.



We really do need to move on from it as it's as manageable as getting colds and flu in most people these days.
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Old 29-12-2022, 08:19   #2322
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Re: Coronavirus

“The same omicron strains”

You’ve fell for the narrative hook, line and sinker. I thought we were all immune anyway
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Old 29-12-2022, 08:19   #2323
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
“The same omicron strains”

You’ve fell for the narrative hook, line and sinker. I thought we were all immune anyway
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Old 29-12-2022, 16:07   #2324
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
“The same omicron strains”
Yes.

Why is it funny ?

Quote:
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I thought we were all immune anyway
You thought wrong, as I'm sure you already knew [anyway]
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Old 29-12-2022, 16:13   #2325
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Yes.

Why is it funny ?
All that changed is the WHO decided not to name new variants since it didn’t fit the narrative of “moving on”. There are already variants under the Omicron umbrella that evade immunity from each other. Had they stuck to the initial naming convention we’d have run out of Greek letters by now.

Quote:
You thought wrong, as I'm sure you already knew [anyway]
I’m laughing at the concept.
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