UPDATED: British Prosecutors: 2 Russian Nationals Identified as Novichok Suspects.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Mick

None of this makes any sense. He had been pardoned by the Russian State, so if it was Russia, why were they still pursuing him?

Reports suggest he was under some form of protection from MI6. A former MI6 woman said, decontamination officials arrived very quickly on scene, as if they expected this kind of attack.

I was thinking about this earlier and it doesn't add up to me either, they wouldn't do this so close to world cup, it's not the winter Olympics that no one watches like the crimea, the eyes of the world will be on them and to do this to someone who they valued so little that they'd swop them when they already had him in prison makes no sense either.

[richard s]

Well if Boris gets to pull the England team out of the contest than that would be one less opposition team to worry about.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I was thinking about this earlier and it doesn't add up to me either, they wouldn't do this so close to world cup, it's not the winter Olympics that no one watches like the crimea, the eyes of the world will be on them and to do this to someone who they valued so little that they'd swop them when they already had him in prison makes no sense either.

Russia know the world cup won’t be impacted. They invaded Ukraine without FIFA doing anything. The eyes of the world are the point, it’s a brazen display of confidence ahead of Putin’s reelection. It’s a message that if you betray Russia they’ll get you back wherever you are and whatever deal has been arranged.

Who else is going to poison someone who worked against Russia in a manner they’ve done before in the U.K? Unless you subscribe to the Galloway theory that it was the Americans in revenge for the Trump dossier.

There's an element of ego involved with Putin he will hit out at any Russian defector not so much for what they might have done but as a sign to everyone in Russia that getting out doesn't mean safe. Putin is a ruthless sociopath he's just a lot better at playing the international game then the mediocre politicians in the west who exude nothing but weakness.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Damien

Russia know the world cup won’t be impacted. They invaded Ukraine without FIFA doing anything. The eyes of the world are the point, it’s a brazen display of confidence ahead of Putin’s reelection. It’s a message that if you betray Russia they’ll get you back wherever you are and whatever deal has been arranged.

Who else is going to poison someone who worked against Russia in a manner they’ve done before in the U.K? Unless you subscribe to the Galloway theory that it was the Americans in revenge for the Trump dossier.

The world cup could be impacted, not by FIFA as they're bought and paid for already but by countries advising their citizens not to travel, unlike the winter Olympics which happened during the Ukraine invasion people will actually be watching the half empty stadiums, that'll inspire confidence and the annexation of the Ukraine was far more important to them than revenge against one man speaking of which why would they wait to get revenge when they had him in jail and considered him to have such little further value that they swooped him. No I don't think it was the Americans but then I don't think it's to far a stretch of imagination for someone who deals in treachery to have screwed over someone else who mixs in more powerful circles to have decided to settle a personal score.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

The world cup could be impacted, not by FIFA as they're bought and paid for already but by countries advising their citizens not to travel, unlike the winter Olympics which happened during the Ukraine invasion people will actually be watching the half empty stadiums, that'll inspire confidence and the annexation of the Ukraine was far more important to them than revenge against one man speaking of which why would they wait to get revenge when they had him in jail and considered him to have such little further value that they swooped him. No I don't think it was the Americans but then I don't think it's to far a stretch of imagination for someone who deals in treachery to have screwed over someone else who mixs in more powerful circles to have decided to settle a personal score.

I would bet a lot that FIFA would not move the World Cup. This is the organisation that award it to Russia in the first place and then Qatar. Even harder to move it so close to the tournament itself. As long as Russia publicly deny it then they'll protest their innocence all along.

Why would they target one man? Because they can. They didn't need to target Liventko either. It's designed to be noticed. Killing someone with a nerve agent leaves little room for doubt into whose responsible.

I don't know it was Russia obviously but it seems more likely given this is something they've done before and they have the clearest motive here. If it were someone settling a personal score you can do that without having to get access to these types of chemicals.

[Matth]

We are outraged, this calls for some huffy rhetoric and a token gesture or 2

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Damien

I would bet a lot that FIFA would not move the World Cup. This is the organisation that award it to Russia in the first place and then Qatar. Even harder to move it so close to the tournament itself. As long as Russia publicly deny it then they'll protest their innocence all along.

Why would they target one man? Because they can. They didn't need to target Liventko either. It's designed to be noticed. Killing someone with a nerve agent leaves little room for doubt into whose responsible.

I don't know it was Russia obviously but it seems more likely given this is something they've done before and they have the clearest motive here. If it were someone settling a personal score you can do that without having to get access to these types of chemicals.

That's what I said, that FIFA won't do anything but it is true what you say about score settling

[Carth]

My curiosity is how and where it was administered, and in what 'form' the substance used was.

They were found 'unconscious on a park bench' in the open air.

A policeman who came to their aid also became infected. Did the policeman become infected because he attempted mouth to mouth resuscitation on one of the victims?

If not, was the substance on their skin, their clothes, the bench?

Presumably it has to be either liquid or solid, as a gas would have dissipated long before help arrived?

If so, what would all 3 people touch? A carrier bag, sandwich bag, bottled drink, cigarettes?

I'm sure the answers will be revealed eventually, but I do like a good 'how did they do that' discussion.

[pip08456]

It's more than that. 21 people have received treatment. Sounds a bit too messy for Russia.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by pip08456

It's more than that. 21 people have received treatment. Sounds a bit too messy for Russia.

Yes I've just seen that . .

police said a total of 21 people had been seen for medical treatment in the aftermath of the incident.
The figure includes members of the public and emergency staff, some of whom have had blood tests as well as receiving support and advice.

I wonder if it's just precautionary though, ensuring anyone with 'first contact' are given the once over to allay any worries they may have.

Originally Posted by pip08456

It's more than that. 21 people have received treatment. Sounds a bit too messy for Russia.

They were sloppy with Liventko too. There was contamination in their hotel room, where they had been around London and even on the plane.

[heero_yuy]

Quote from Carth:


Yes I've just seen that . .

police said a total of 21 people had been seen for medical treatment in the aftermath of the incident.
The figure includes members of the public and emergency staff, some of whom have had blood tests as well as receiving support and advice.

I wonder if it's just precautionary though, ensuring anyone with 'first contact' are given the once over to allay any worries they may have.

I would imagine that these are precautionary and also those who get "symptoms" just because they've been told that they might have been contaminated.

It's the sort of reverse placebo effect.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

It's the sort of reverse placebo effect.

There's a person at my work place who likes reading medical articles on the internet . . . and constantly develops many strange afflictions - some of which are impossible with their gender

[pip08456]

Precaution and the placebo effect could well explain the other 18 but not the police officer.

As regards Litventko, not sloppy enough to affect any other person.