President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Trump's denials are to be expected, although his twitter feed was entertaining this morning.

Why expected?

First, Trump needs to discredit the book and other report, so of course he is going to deny everything and say it's all lies.

Second, if there is a resistance in the White House, then the members are going to deny to Trump (and anyone else not in the resistance) that they are members. They aren't likely to pipe up and say "Yes, it was me. I told everyone we were resisting Trump's orders" because even in a normal job, that is likely gross misconduct, and a sackable offence. It could possibly attract legal action if you ignore the orders of a president. Possibly even treason, as Trump said.

The Treason thing is just hyperbole it seems. More of a child like tantrum than a real threat. I looked at the Wikipedia definition of Treason in the context of the US Jurisdiction:

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Article_...ion_3:_Treason

Section 3 defines treason and its punishment.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

The Constitution defines treason as specific acts, namely "levying War against [the United States], or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." A contrast is therefore maintained with the English law, whereby crimes including conspiring to kill the King or "violating" the Queen, were punishable as treason. In Ex Parte Bollman, 8 U.S. 75 (1807), the Supreme Court ruled that "there must be an actual assembling of men, for the treasonable purpose, to constitute a levying of war."[17]

He may have his work cut to make Treason stick?

[Lutherf]

Originally Posted by Damien

Both Woodward's book and a anonymous article are suggesting that senior members of Trump's staff work to frustrate his agenda but ignoring orders and hiding documents. Pretty amazing stuff.

That coincidence is quite convenient for Mr. Woodward.

The NY Times opinion piece is a wholly self-serving product of the author. Even if the allegations are true it serves no benefit to the president or to the nation. Quite the opposite, it serves only to call into question not just the president but the functions of the Executive branch as a whole. If an unelected advisor is actually making the decision in the White House then there was no purpose in having an election at all. That's not Democracy by any stretch of the imagination.

There are, of course, other possibilities. This could be an attempt to build a case for removal of the president. While basing such an attempt on hearsay (Woodward's as well as that of the op-ed author) would have seemed insane at earlier points in American history it could well be contemplated under the current insanity.

This could also merely be an attempt to undermine Trump's credibility. That was the point of the Steele dossier. It is the point of the absurdly biased press coverage and 40-45% of the citizens believe getting Trump out by any means necessary is the only way to save the world at large.

[1andrew1]

In effect, Trump is in the position but not in power. It mirrors that other incompetent politician, Jeremy Corbyn, who has been continuously over-ruled on the wording of the anti-Semitism statement.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

In effect, Trump is in the position but not in power. It mirrors that other incompetent politician, Jeremy Corbyn, who has been continuously over-ruled on the wording of the anti-Semitism statement.

He is in power, just not in total power. Same as the other 43 Presidents before him. Remember the American Government is divided in to three Branches. I’ve posted several times how they function. To say he has or is not in power is disingenuous.

I’m not even going to bother commenting on another book of fiction.

Originally Posted by Mick

He is in power, just not in total power. Same as the other 43 Presidents before him. Remember the American Government is divided in to three Branches. I’ve posted several times how they function. To say he has or is not in power is disingenuous.

People understand how the American government works. This is about staffers slow walking or ignoring his instructions as a 'resistance'. Some of the stuff coming out of the book is mad.

If it is believed. I don’t believe it. We’ve already had Mattis, Kelly deny they said any of the things claimed in the book.

Originally Posted by Mick

If it is believed. I don’t believe it. We’ve already had Mattis, Kelly deny they said any of the things claimed in the book.

Of course they did. But this is Bob Woodword now, not a guy with a dodgy reputation, so this is a bizarre time for him to start making stuff up.

Democrat Operative. Just look at timing. Trump is set to declassify FISA Warrants and other Classified Documents DoJ/FBI is withholding. Plus the Confirmation Hearings of Judge Kavanaugh currently going on.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

Democrat Operative. Just look at timing. Trump is set to declassify FISA Warrants and other Classified Documents DoJ/FBI is withholding. Plus the Confirmation Hearings of Judge Kavanaugh currently going on.

Woodward has written critical books on Democrats too. He's just too authoritative to dismiss.

I dismiss what he is saying. I don’t give a shit how reputable he is or isn’t.

[Lutherf]

Originally Posted by Mick

He is in power, just not in total power. Same as the other 43 Presidents before him. Remember the American Government is divided in to three Branches. I’ve posted several times how they function. To say he has or is not in power is disingenuous.

I’m not even going to bother commenting on another book of fiction.

I'm glad you put it that way, Mick. Many Americans seem to have forgotten that the president isn't a position of omnipotence. I daresay that over the years some presidents have also forgotten that fact!

The American people have survived incompetence and corruption before. They will certainly survive Trump. At issue is whether they will survive each other due to the political animus the press and their partners in Washington, DC continue to promulgate.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Mick

If it is believed. I don’t believe it. We’ve already had Mattis, Kelly deny they said any of the things claimed in the book.

Of course, as I said above if they are members of a “resistance” movement in the White House, they will deny it. If they don’t, they risk losing their job or legal action.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Mick

If it is believed. I don’t believe it. We’ve already had Mattis, Kelly deny they said any of the things claimed in the book.

Of course they deny saying any of it. They want to keep their jobs.

Woodward has got many types of these conversations so it's not lies or made up.

Woodward has a great reputation and is the man the brought down Nixon.

Trump himself tweeted a few years ago that Obama was crazy to try and insult or go against Woodward. How times have changed now he is in the firing line.

He is not in the firing line. All these Fake books that have been out and done absolutely diddly squat.

Trumps approval ratings among Republicans is above 90%.

Blacks support for Trump has more than doubled since he took office.

Trumps actions on removing Obama regulations has boosted the Economy, jobs are up.

So whatever shit is written in a fictional book, doesn’t mean it’s over.

Nixon brought himself down, he resigned because he lost the political support around him. There was no cast iron Guarantee that Nixon would have been impeached and removed from office. Different era, different President.

No evidence of collusion found to date, except by Crooked Hillary and the DNC, funding the Fake Russian Dossier.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Mick

He is not in the firing line. All these Fake books that have been out and done absolutely diddly squat.

Trumps approval ratings among Republicans is above 90%.

Blacks support for Trump has more than doubled since he took office.

Trumps actions on removing Obama regulations has boosted the Economy, jobs are up.

So whatever shit is written in a fictional book, doesn’t mean it’s over.

Nixon brought himself down, he resigned because he lost the political support around him. There was no cast iron Guarantee that Nixon would have been impeached and removed from office. Different era, different President.

No evidence of collusion found to date, except by Crooked Hillary and the DNC, funding the Fake Russian Dossier.

Thought you didn't agree with polls?

Your (un-cited) statement:

Blacks support for Trump has more than doubled since he took office.

seems to be based on a poll from Rasmussen Reports, a conservative American polling company. So I guess you get what you pay for ..

Looking here:

No, one-third of African Americans don’t support Trump. Not even close.

It might seem far-fetched that over a third of African Americans would now approve of a president with a very long history of racial insensitivity — especially because fewer than 10 percent of black voters supported him in 2016.

That’s because it is far-fetched. Trump’s black approval rating is nowhere near 36 percent.

Polling firms that have interviewed far more African Americans, and that are much more transparent than Rasmussen, all show that Trump’s black approval rating is much lower than 36 percent.

For example, Gallup has interviewed thousands of African American respondents in 2018. Its polling suggests that Trump’s black approval rating has consistently been around 10 to 15 percent through 2018.

The same is true in polling by Ipsos/Reuters.

Similarly, the polling firm Civiqs, which has interviewed more than 140,000 respondents in 2017 and 2018 suggests that Trump’s black approval rating has consistently been in the single-digits throughout his presidency.

Similarly, Trump’s average approval rating among African American respondents in seven YouGov/Economist surveys conducted in July and August was 13 percent. His average approval rating among African Americans in four Quinnipiac University surveys conducted over the past two months was just 9 percent.

These data remind us to be skeptical of outlier polls — especially when those results fly in the face of what we already know about African Americans’ weak support for Republican presidents in general and their strong disapproval of Donald Trump in particular.

---------- Post added at 11:32 ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

Trumps approval ratings among Republicans is above 90%

But ..

No, Donald Trump's poll numbers do not beat Lincoln, all other GOP presidents

So, as of the point of Trump’s tweet, not only did George W. Bush have a higher approval rating among Republicans, but so did Dwight Eisenhower and, arguably, George H.W. Bush.

Two other points of comparison make Trump’s achievement less impressive.

One is to compare Trump’s highest approval rating of his tenure so far — 90 percent as recently as mid-July — to the record-high rating for his predecessors through July 29 of their second year in office.

By this measure, Trump actually ties for the second-worst of any post-World War II Republican president, surpassing only Ford.

Another approach is to compare each president on the highest approval rating of their tenure. (Trump has only been in office for a year and a half, but he opened the door to this analysis by claiming the "highest poll numbers in the history of the Republican Party.")

Once again, by this measure, Trump fares the second worst of any post-war Republican president, only surpassing Ford.

By historical standards, Trump has had "solid, but not extraordinary in-party approval," said Kathleen Joyce Weldon, director of data operations and communications at the Roper Center for Public Opinion Research at Cornell University.