President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Stephen

So Trump now contradicting himself yet again.

It was no I didn't know about any money or pay outs to oh yeah the money came from me.

What a total idiot.

#media conspiracy #crookedhillary #nocollusion

Oh here we go with the usual, I am on the edge of my fecking seat discussion, "Trump's an idiot".

YAWN ZZZZ.

He has a right to keep information that may have happened to him as a private citizen 12 years ago, we know he likes his women, has been divorced multiple times - that is his business, what he did in his own bloody time is no ones business whatsoever.

At least he has not engaged in sexual activities, in the oval office, like a certain 42nd President did and then lied about it.

[Stephen]

Well if he had nothing to hide why lie about it all.

The truth always comes out in the end.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

Oh here we go with the usual, I am on the edge of my fecking seat discussion, "Trump's an idiot".

YAWN ZZZZ.

He has a right to keep information that may have happened to him as a private citizen 12 years ago, we know he likes his women, has been divorced multiple times - that is his business, what he did in his own bloody time is no ones business whatsoever.

At least he has not engaged in sexual activities, in the oval office, like a certain 42nd President did and then lied about it.

Surely it's the issue of paying someone off and not disclosing it properly that's the issue.

---------- Post added at 13:27 ---------- Previous post was at 13:26 ----------

Originally Posted by Stephen

Well if he had nothing to hide why lie about it all. .

Habit?

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Surely it's the issue of paying someone off and not disclosing it properly that's the issue.

It's only a bloody issue to the haters who want Trump gone.

Yet the U.S economy is in overdrive, Jobs up, GDP up.

Selfish, hateful people want all that disrupted and the economy would take a dive if Trump was removed - the U.S Market reacted badly to the revelations on Tuesday.

Meanwhile across the pond - Russia is laughing it's ass off at the disruption it's caused and all the goings on in the U.S, making the world quite vulnerable during that process, their mission complete.

Do people really think removing a sitting President will be a walk in the park ?

Wake the hell up. It would cause massive civil unrest and quite possibly not just in the U.S - Trump's HUGE base will not stand for it and they have their guns. The Constitution allows it's citizens to strike at the government during tyranny and "illegitimately" removing a sitting President would come under this "Tyranny" remit.

The 2nd Amendment was written solely for the people to strike back at tyranny in the Federal Government.

The Second Amendment provides U.S. citizens the right to bear arms. Ratified in December 1791, the amendment says: ... Having just used guns and other arms to ward off the English, and also there to give U.S citizens the opportunity to fight back against a tyrannical federal government.

The division in America is already huge - it would get worse if Trump was removed from office, illegitimately. So while one side may celebrate, the other side will rebel and it could get very nasty. Riots, you name it, massive civil unrest and it potentially could spill out across the world.

Yet in Russia, Putin is rubbing his hands in glee - thinking "job done."

Still, be quite funny wouldn't it?

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Mick

It's only a bloody issue to the haters who want Trump gone.

Yet the U.S economy is in overdrive, Jobs up, GDP up.

Selfish, hateful people want all that disrupted and the economy would take a dive if Trump was removed - the U.S Market reacted badly to the revelations on Tuesday.

Meanwhile across the pond - Russia is laughing it's ass off at the disruption it's caused and all the goings on in the U.S, making the world quite vulnerable during that process, their mission complete.

Do people really think removing a sitting President will be a walk in the park ?

Wake the hell up. It would cause massive civil unrest and quite possibly not just in the U.S - Trump's HUGE base will not stand for it and they have their guns. The Constitution allows it's citizens to strike at the government during tyranny and "illegitimately" removing a sitting President would come under this "Tyranny" remit.

The 2nd Amendment was written solely for the people to strike back at tyranny in the Federal Government.

The Second Amendment provides U.S. citizens the right to bear arms. Ratified in December 1791, the amendment says: ... Having just used guns and other arms to ward off the English, and also there to give U.S citizens the opportunity to fight back against a tyrannical federal government.

The division in America is already huge - it would get worse if Trump was removed from office, illegitimately. So while one side may celebrate, the other side will rebel and it could get very nasty. Riots, you name it, massive civil unrest and it potentially could spill out across the world.

Yet in Russia, Putin is rubbing his hands in glee - thinking "job done."

Sorry Mick, the 2nd amendment can only be invoked if the security of the state is at risk.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state

If the removal of Trump caused a rebellion of citizens of a state then the state government could raise a militia to put down the rebellion. The civil war you speak of would initially be confined within the state.

The only time a state can raise a militia against the federal government is if the federal government threatened the states security. The removal of Trump per se does not do that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45285585

US President Donald Trump has responded to speculation that he might be impeached by warning that any such move would damage the economy.

In an interview with Fox & Friends, he said the market would crash and "everybody would be very poor".

He is right in one respect because the market does fluctuate to world wide events - a Presidential removal is unprecedented, it's never happened before and as I already said, the market did suffer losses on Tuesday when Cohen and Manafort's legal troubles came to light.

People need to calm down about impeachment - it is not happening any time soon, if at all.

---------- Post added at 16:07 ---------- Previous post was at 16:04 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

Sorry Mick, the 2nd amendment can only be invoked if the security of the state is at risk.



If the removal of Trump caused a rebellion of citizens of a state then the state government could raise a militia to put down the rebellion. The civil war you speak of would initially be confined within the state.

The only time a state can raise a militia against the federal government is if the federal government threatened the states security. The removal of Trump per se does not do that.

Not true - People can take arms against their government if they feel it has become a Tyranny of oppression - the whole idea of the U.S Constitution was to prevent a Tyranny of oppression in the Federal Government.

Originally Posted by Mick

He is right in one respect because the market does fluctuate to world wide events - a Presidential removal is unprecedented, it's never happened before and as I already said, the market did suffer losses on Tuesday when Cohen and Manafort's legal troubles came to light.

It would have happened had Nixon not resigned to avoid it though. He simply jumped before he was pushed.

I agree it won't happen though. For a start neither the Republicans nor Democrats seem to want it. At the moment the Democrats probably prefer him to stay in place.

Not true - People can take arms against their government if they feel it has become a Tyranny of oppression - the whole idea of the U.S Constitution was to prevent a Tyranny of oppression in the Federal Government.

The idea that a Militia could seriously challenge the power of the U.S government these days is a bit unbelievable though. I am also skeptical that many would take up arms to the cost life imprisonment/death to defend Trump from impeachment, especially if the impeachment is coming from illegality being discovered. No one took up arms to defend Nixon or Clinton from impeachment.

Originally Posted by Damien

It would have happened had Nixon not resigned to avoid it though. He simply jumped before he was pushed.

I agree it won't happen though. For a start neither the Republicans nor Democrats seem to want it. At the moment the Democrats probably prefer him to stay in place.



The idea that a Militia could seriously challenge the power of the U.S government these days is a bit unbelievable though. I am also skeptical that many would take up arms to the cost life imprisonment/death to defend Trump from impeachment, especially if the impeachment is coming from illegality being discovered. No one took up arms to defend Nixon or Clinton from impeachment.

You're forgetting, the President is the Commander and chief of the army. He could order them to stand down, are they obliged to obey?

What's the actual process to physically removing the President from the White House/Power.... ?

Are the Secret Service ordered to stand down, who gives them that order ?

With Nixon resigning, so impeachment did not apply. He also lost extensive support.

Clinton was cleared by the Senate, so full impeachment was not fulfilled. Clinton survived.

There was no need for some kind of civil unrest in either case because the removal process never actually took place.

So while Clinton was Impeached in House of Representatives, he was acquitted in the Senate because of the two-thirds of the Senate — 67 votes needed — is a very high threshold that’s almost never achieved on any matter that’s remotely partisan, which is why Trump is in no danger, even if Democrats take ALL 10 Republican Senate Seats up for re-election after the Mid-terms, the numbers just are not there, there would have to be very damning evidence of a high crime for Trump to lose Republican Senators support.

The Founding Fathers did not make it easy for Congress to remove a democratically elected president from power. Bill Clinton's Impeachment proceedings showed that, even after he was technically guilty of lying of having his affair.

[pip08456]

First, if it should ever happen (which I doubt) would the removal of Trump be Tyranny of oppression? If he were to be removed there would have to be sufficient legal grounds for it.

Second you have to consider how the removal would affect the security of the state. It can if it wishes secede from the union with an overwhelming citizen vote and then may have a security of the state issue if the union objected and were willing to enforce it.

Third it would have to be the state government which perceived the security of the state to be at risk and raise the militia to defend the state.

That is the reality of the 2nd amendment.

The Senate Trial isn't like a court of legal proceedings - there is evidence based facts sharing, however, it's the votes that matter and it's purely political - a president can be completely innocent of the charges being levied against him, it's not like a criminal trial where once convicted, there is an appeal.

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:46 ----------

Hearing on grapevine Special Counsel, Mueller could be about to claim Donald Trump Jnr lied to Congress. Not being reported on any news outlet yet...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

Hearing on grapevine Special Counsel, Mueller could be about to claim Donald Trump Jnr lied to Congress. Not being reported on any news outlet yet...

From Day 1 of the Trump Russian Collusion Investigation, he had been tipped as the person in the Trump family most likely to be charged, so that is plausible.

Originally Posted by Mick

You're forgetting, the President is the Commander and chief of the army. He could order them to stand down, are they obliged to obey?

What's the actual process to physically removing the President from the White House/Power.... ?

Are the Secret Service ordered to stand down, who gives them that order ?

To be clear I don't think impeachment should happen here unless a serious crime in proven. I think it's a dangerous tool which should only be used in extraordinary circumstances otherwise we're going to have impeachment being used every few years against every President.

I don't actually know the answers to your questions here, I am guessing the details will be fuzzy. Like our system they seem to sometimes work on the assumption of people doing what is right.

However impeachment is the proper way to remove a President. If Trump refused to leave and attempted to use the army to enforce that then we've entered a failed American democracy, Trump will be the tinpot despot people fear.