Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?

[tweetiepooh]

Most teaching in schools is secular, even blindly so. Even when some faith position is taught it is often done so "badly" it may as well be secular.

My kids school RE is mostly "christian" with some "islam". The local 6th form has a syllabus focussed on "buddhism". (small letters deliberate - I know their teaching on the Christian faith is very different from what I call Christianity - guessing the same is true for other faiths.

I don't want my kid's faith to be destroyed by "the system", and I'm guessing that's true for others too, even secularists but they seem to want to control things so that their "no faith" position is the only one allowed.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by idi banashapan

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...-diverse-world

What are people’s views on this? Should atheism be taught in an equal measure in schools?

Atheism should always be discussed as it is the default condition. We are all born as Atheists. Some of us choose to become Theists or Deists and some of us has these beliefs forced on them during childhood.

Also, Faith Schools should be banned from the public sector. Taxpayers should not be made to pay for this:



---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:15 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

The Bible doesn’t try to prove God exists, any more than a Haynes manual attempts to prove the existence of your car. Both books make certain assumptions and proceed from there.

If you get stuck on trying to agree or disagree over cosmology you’re not going to get very far and you’re certainly not ever going to understand why a religion like Christianity exists and what the consequences of its existence are for believers and the world.

Religious studies, remember, are there to study the religion and its consequences. If you want to contemplate God, then you want theology (which is the term used by Christians at any rate ... you can study the concept of God in an Islamic or Hindu context also, doubtless they have their own terms for that).

The Bible cannot, by definition, attempt to prove the existence of God. Religion mandates Faith without proof. If you could prove God exists, you would no longer need Faith.

The Haynes manual requires no faith in the existence of the car it is documenting. Rather it's aim is to document the existence of the vehicle in so much detail that to any fair minded person, the probability of the document being a work of fiction is so low as to be ignored.

It also provides to the (rare) individual that believes that the car has never existed, information & detail that can be independently verified in alternate knowledge centres. For example, you can search for the specific engine part number and discover that the part does in deed fit the car in question.

Originally Posted by Stuart

I think for some athiests, atheism almost *is* a religion, just with no defined deity (although some seem to worship Richard Dawkins as if he is one). They certainly show a lot of the piousness they say that religious people show.

Personally, I don't believe in God. I believe something created us, but I don't define that thing as a God, in fact I am not sure I can define it. I am unsure if it still exists.

Do I think Religion causes wars? No. I believe it's an excuse. I believe the Human race would have wars and just use another excuse should Religion just vanish.

Do I think RE is a good thing. Yes, if it's taught correctly. It shouldn't be just telling people about a particular religion, or how good a given deity is. It should be teaching people the basis of all belief systems (I even count atheism as a belief system). It should also teach people how to look at things critically, but fairly.

Regardless of which religion you believe in, and even if you are an atheist, people may not believe the same things as you. Understanding those beliefs, and the basis for them helps in breaking down barriers between people. Something I think that especially now, the human race needs to happen.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Also, Faith Schools should be banned from the public sector. Taxpayers should not be made to pay for this

[richard s]

The only thing that created us was physics, chemistry, biology and shear luck...

[idi banashapan]

Originally Posted by richard s

The only thing that created us was physics, chemistry, biology and shear luck...

So 4 things. The only 4 things that created us were physics, chemistry, biology and shear luck. And time.... 5 things!! The only 5 things that created us were physics, chemistry, biology, shear luck and time. And evolution... 6 things!! Wait, wait, wait... Let’s go out and start again...

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Pierre

There’s no point. Stop now.

You cannot argue with a person of faith, likewise a person of faith cannot argue with someone that is not a person of faith.

It will decend into a slanging match about religion and just end there.

You're right - though his argument was full of holes!

[Hom3r]

Relegion should only be taught in churches etc.

Should should only teach the basics and to respect peoples beliefs, regardless of their own.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

Relegion should only be taught in churches etc.

Should should only teach the basics and to respect peoples beliefs, regardless of their own.

Exactly. Preferably tied up with human rights and equality and diversity legislation as they go along.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Angua

Exactly. Preferably tied up with human rights and equality and diversity legislation as they go along.

Tricky. Human rights and equality and diversity legislation are in short supply in the Religious texts and when you get the people who follow these texts literally, they really go out of the window.

Originally Posted by ianch99

Tricky. Human rights and equality and diversity legislation are in short supply in the Religious texts and when you get the people who follow these texts literally, they really go out of the window.

Did you know (no, you didn’t, but hey), that women have held office in the Baptist Church since the 1620s and the first fully accredited female Baptist minister began serving in the 1920s? Within the Reformation it was Baptists who argued, were pilloried, jailed and executed, for insisting on freedom of religion, including the freedom to have no religion at all.

I think you might be surprised at what is actually in the Bible, as opposed to what powerful people have chosen to present as Biblical in order to arrange society to suit themselves.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Tricky. Human rights and equality and diversity legislation are in short supply in the Religious texts and when you get the people who follow these texts literally, they really go out of the window.

Which is why they should be included.

Far too easy for fundamentalists to fall back on "but X says Y is wrong" or "A dictates how B should be treated", then use belief as an excuse to act in a way that is anti human rights and equality.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

My kids school RE is mostly "christian" with some "islam". The local 6th form has a syllabus focussed on "buddhism". (small letters deliberate - I know their teaching on the Christian faith is very different from what I call Christianity - guessing the same is true for other faiths.

I've said this a few times over the years, but I had two RE teachers at school. I had an Irish Catholic RE teacher for four years, who basically taught us that Catholocism and Christianity are good, everything else is bad or unimportant.

Then, he left (retired I think) and a younger, Jewish RE teacher took over. He taught us about all of the major world religions. He taught the history behind the beliefs, and also taught us to question what we are told (a good rule for life beyond RE and something I still do). We even had a whole lesson discussing whether we thought Jesus was homosexual (IIRC we came to the conclusion that while there was no evidence in the Bible that Jesus had a sexual attraction to anyone, he probably leaned that way), which I can't imagine my other RE teacher even allowing.

Now, I know my second teacher's niece (she is a friend of my sister) and apparently he is extremely religious, and was when he was teaching me. He still taught us to question religion though. He also continually drummed in to use that it was important we found our own beliefs. If we chose to believe a given religion, that was good. If we chose to believe in Atheism, that was good also. If we chose not to believe in Religion, that was good.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

Did you know (no, you didn’t, but hey), that women have held office in the Baptist Church since the 1620s and the first fully accredited female Baptist minister began serving in the 1920s? Within the Reformation it was Baptists who argued, were pilloried, jailed and executed, for insisting on freedom of religion, including the freedom to have no religion at all.

I think you might be surprised at what is actually in the Bible, as opposed to what powerful people have chosen to present as Biblical in order to arrange society to suit themselves.

What with the snide remarks? Totally unnecessary.

I confess, I am not up-to-date with the detailed 500 year history of the Baptist church. While I am at it, I also not up-to-date with the historical details of:

Lutheranism
Methodism
Calvinism
Continental Reformed church
Anabaptism
Hussites
Quakers
Pentecostalism
Nondenominational Christianity
African initiated Protestant churches
Seventh-day Adventist Church
New Apostolic Church
Restoration Movement
Anglicanism
Eastern Orthodox Church
Oriental Orthodoxy
Mormonism
Jehovah's Witnesses
Oneness Pentecostalism
Catholic Church
Independent Catholicism
Nestorian Church
Messianic Judaism

The fact that you are congratulating the Baptist Church for supporting the freedom to have no religion at all, I feel proves the points being made. Celebrating the right to not have religion forced upon you ... no more needs to be said on this point.

I would not be surprised at what you would find in the Bible since it provides legitimacy for many of the crimes carried out in the name of religion over the centuries.

Saying that these crimes are more the fault of "powerful people" than the religious texts underwriting the motivation & justification is just factually inaccurate.

---------- Post added at 15:21 ---------- Previous post was at 15:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Stuart

I've said this a few times over the years, but I had two RE teachers at school. I had an Irish Catholic RE teacher for four years, who basically taught us that Catholocism and Christianity are good, everything else is bad or unimportant.

Then, he left (retired I think) and a younger, Jewish RE teacher took over. He taught us about all of the major world religions. He taught the history behind the beliefs, and also taught us to question what we are told (a good rule for life beyond RE and something I still do). We even had a whole lesson discussing whether we thought Jesus was homosexual (IIRC we came to the conclusion that while there was no evidence in the Bible that Jesus had a sexual attraction to anyone, he probably leaned that way), which I can't imagine my other RE teacher even allowing.

Now, I know my second teacher's niece (she is a friend of my sister) and apparently he is extremely religious, and was when he was teaching me. He still taught us to question religion though. He also continually drummed in to use that it was important we found our own beliefs. If we chose to believe a given religion, that was good. If we chose to believe in Atheism, that was good also. If we chose not to believe in Religion, that was good.

Atheism is not a belief system, rather it is the lack of belief. Everyone is born an Atheist, by definition.

Atheism

Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities