Coronavirus

[Hom3r]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Ah, using statistics which can prove anything you want. Forget science, just use statistics.

I can prove anything by statistics except the truth.George Canning



https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Canning

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

This is why drug regulation is split up into strands. The first answers the question 'is the drug safe and effective'? This is the job of the MHRA, EMA, FDA, etc. The next questions is who can and can't have a drug, when and how? In most cases, the regulatory body such as the MHRA does this too. This is the Marketing Authorisation.

The third question is who are we going to give this to given the data of safety, effectiveness, side effects, costs, quality of life, etc. This is more a clinical decision. In the UK, NICE usually makes this decision though JCVI will in the case of vaccines.

My feeling is that the separation of these strands is important. With the safety and effectiveness being 'blind' and scientific and the clinical application being the more 'human' side.

Say for example, that the findings were that there was a slight increase in clotting issues. Then the Marketing Authorisation would be adjusted to state this and then the clinicians would take the risk/benefit decision. For example, if you have clotting issues, then the AZ vaccine is not the one for you.

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Just to add, investigating this was the right thing to do in my opinion. In vaccine sceptic groups, saying 'nah, it's fine' probably doesn't wash. Saying let's stop, have a look, check and act on the results is more likely to get past vaccine sceptics. Of course, it's not ideal as it slows down the roll out but one reports were out, it needed to be done

But the statiscs! It's always about statistics!!!!

[Carth]

34.38% of us hate statistics


. . . oooops

[heero_yuy]

80% of all statistics are made up - Vic Reeves.

Originally Posted by pip08456

But the statiscs! It's always about statistics!!!!

Or as scientists call it, evidence.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by pip08456

But the statiscs! It's always about statistics!!!!

Here you go, some statistics;

However, based on pre-COVID figures it was calculated that less than 1 reported case of DIC might have been expected by 16 March among people under 50 within 14 days of receiving the vaccine, whereas 5 cases had been reported. Similarly, on average 1.35 cases of CVST might have been expected among this age group whereas by the same cut-off date there had been 12. A similar imbalance was not visible in the older population given the vaccine.

From todays EMA report - https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/co...re-blood-clots

So 5x higher risk of disseminated intravascular coagulation, DIC and just under 10x higher risk of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, CVST in vaccinated under 50s.

However, the conclusion is;

The Committee was of the opinion that the vaccine’s proven efficacy in preventing hospitalisation and death from COVID-19 outweighs the extremely small likelihood of developing DIC or CVST. However, in the light of its findings, patients should be aware of the remote possibility of such syndromes, and if symptoms suggestive of clotting problems occur patients should seek immediate medical attention and inform healthcare professionals of their recent vaccination. Steps are already being taken to update the product information for the vaccine to include more information on these risks.

So there's a low risk of clotting but it's higher than background and worth the risk considering the risks of COVID infections

[Sephiroth]

Maybe aspirin for a few days after the vaccine?

France daily cases continue to spike, nearly 7 times that of the UK. France entered 3rd wave territory and extra measures are being implemented considered to be their THIRD lockdown.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

France daily cases continue to spike, nearly 7 times that of the UK. France entered 3rd wave territory and extra measures are being implemented considered to be their THIRD lockdown.

It's not really a competition Mick. If it is, we're comfortably winning on the number of deaths in Europe, thanks to our Govt. delaying the necessary lockdown.

'Eat out to kill some people', what a wonderful initiative...

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Here you go, some statistics;



From todays EMA report - https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/co...re-blood-clots

So 5x higher risk of disseminated intravascular coagulation, DIC and just under 10x higher risk of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, CVST in vaccinated under 50s.

However, the conclusion is;



So there's a low risk of clotting but it's higher than background and worth the risk considering the risks of COVID infections

Yet from the same report.

the vaccine is not associated with an increase in the overall risk of blood clots (thromboembolic events) in those who receive it...

...The PRAC involved experts in blood disorders in its review, and worked closely with other health authorities including the UK’s MHRA which has experience with administration of this vaccine to around 11 million people. Overall the number of thromboembolic events reported after vaccination, both in studies before licensing and in reports after rollout of vaccination campaigns (469 reports, 191 of them from the EEA), was lower than that expected in the general population.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mr K

It's not really a competition Mick. If it is, we're comfortably winning on the number of deaths in Europe, thanks to our Govt. delaying the necessary lockdown.

'Eat out to kill some people', what a wonderful initiative...

It aint over yet

[Carth]

Starting to look like Paris in springtime is out

Caravan at Cleggy it is then

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Carth

Starting to look like Paris in springtime is out

Caravan at Cleggy it is then

You could try the Samaritans, before resorting to Lincolnshire....

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Carth

Starting to look like Paris in springtime is out

Caravan at Cleggy it is then

book early

Originally Posted by pip08456

Yet from the same report.

But the statiscs! It's always about statistics!!!!