UK offers right to residency and path to citizenship to 3m Hong Kong citizens

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You really hate this government, don't you? What you've said is so unconstructive and the same sort of bile that you express about Brexit.

Calm down dear. We just have different views on the ability, morality and accountability of this Government. You admire them because they have managed to deliver on your particular ideological goals and I dislike them for so many reasons.

You seem to view any criticism as "bile" and "unconstructive". This is your prerogative but it implies that you are incapable or more likely, unwilling to address points that show this Government in a unsavoury light. Your dismissal of continual lying about the handling of this pandemic as "well, all politicians lie don't they?" is illustrative. It seems they literally can do anything as long as they continue on the path you favour.

Others may want to provide a more objective assessment of them and call them out when required.

Originally Posted by nomadking

And where does this "more output" go to? A higher total GDP, DOES NOT mean a better economy.

I didn't say it would make a better economy, which is a subjective argument to make anyway, you were asking how it increases GDP. I said how. Now, you're trying to make the argument into something else which I am not arguing.

Where does this money that is funding this alleged massive extra demand come from?

Either abroad as the stuff we export, or from the banks or the Bank of England. The money supply is not finite and, very simplistically speaking, it should increase to much the value produced in the economy.

You could let in 10m extra people, all on benefits, and the GDP would go up. But in no way whatsoever would the economy be better. The GDP per person would be further diluted.

Yes, which is why at the start of this I said 'assuming they're working.'.

But during the period in which we had a lot of migration we did not see GDP being diluted, we saw it increase:https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nited-kingdom/

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

No, because he has never professed to be an economist.

Maybe it's because he doesn't brag about his abilities on this forum

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Maybe it's because he doesn't brag about his abilities on this forum

I have to tip my hat to Damien - his posts are always very informative.
I've seen a lot of stuff on this forum and I confess I didn't know what a straw man was until I joined this forum. But I'm not sure I've seen people brag about their abilities.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I have to tip my hat to Damien - his posts are always very informative.
I've seen a lot of stuff on this forum and I confess I didn't know what a straw man was until I joined this forum. But I'm not sure I've seen people brag about their abilities.

Not what i said.

[Carth]

Some interesting discussion over the last couple of pages.
One thing that kept coming up was the reference to 'those employed, working' spending money on goods made. Working 16 hrs a week on minimum wage doesn't buy you much, but if it helps the GDP why don't we all just work 20hrs a week (with pro rata wage) and cure the unemployment problem

Another suggestion was people earning money but sending/spending it 'back home', which is more prevalent than you'd think.

oh and . .

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

...but mass automation is just around the corner.

Where have you been for the last decade?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You really hate this government, don't you? What you've said is so unconstructive and the same sort of bile that you express about Brexit.

The point here is that the UK finds itself hoist by the petard of international treaty. I'd rather we lived up to our commitments and be trusted than otherwise.

Btw, if the UK is swamped with refugees from communist China oppression, then might we need to relabel that stupid word "BAME" - add a few letters, signs and numbers, perhaps in ideogram form?

In fairness there’s no way the Government would make the offer without sitting down and having some kind of stab at how many would be likely to come, their background, education, existing means.

While he’s quite cynical about it, there’s an element of reward in PR terms (for anyone in any line of work) in being seen to make a generous offer that nobody will take up.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by jfman

While he’s quite cynical about it, there’s an element of reward in PR terms (for anyone in any line of work) in being seen to make a generous offer that nobody will take up.

It also strengthens the Hong Kong people's negotiation position, assuming the Chinese don't throw a tantrum.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by downquark1

It also strengthens the Hong Kong people's negotiation position, assuming the Chinese don't throw a tantrum.

Nah, they're not like that, nothing in the last few days to show any backlash

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I assume you are comparing poor jobless Romanians with wealthy entrepreneurial Hong Kongers and can't see the difference.

Amin's Ugandans have benefited this country considerably and people from Hong Kong will be the same. We should be welcoming people with the wealth, skills and knowledge that will benefit this country and are not a threat to the jobs of the low paid.

Wealthy? It'll be their middle class coming over if they come at all and their 'wealth' will be tied up in the businesses left behind, just like it was with the Ugandans many of whom had no more than the clothes on their back when they arrived.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Carth

Some interesting discussion over the last couple of pages.
One thing that kept coming up was the reference to 'those employed, working' spending money on goods made. Working 16 hrs a week on minimum wage doesn't buy you much, but if it helps the GDP why don't we all just work 20hrs a week (with pro rata wage) and cure the unemployment problem

Another suggestion was people earning money but sending/spending it 'back home', which is more prevalent than you'd think.

oh and . .


Where have you been for the last decade?

Yes, it has already started, but you ain't seen nothing yet. Some economists predict that about a third of jobs will disappear within 10 to 15 years. There won't be enough jobs for people already living here and I think we will probably have to introduce an unconditional citizens income. This will be at a massive cost.

This is why I think that we must prepare ourselves to mitigate this by ensuring that any future immigration is on the understanding that it is temporary whilst they are needed by the UK. That way everyone knows where they stand and people we need that want to come here can make an informed choice.

---------- Post added at 16:36 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Wealthy? It'll be their middle class coming over if they come at all and their 'wealth' will be tied up in the businesses left behind, just like it was with the Ugandans many of whom had no more than the clothes on their back when they arrived.

Good point.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Yes, it has already started, but you ain't seen nothing yet. Some economists predict that about a third of jobs will disappear within 10 to 15 years. There won't be enough jobs for people already living here and I think we will probably have to introduce an unconditional citizens income. This will be at a massive cost.

This is why I think that we must prepare ourselves to mitigate this by ensuring that any future immigration is on the understanding that it is temporary whilst they are needed by the UK. That way everyone knows where they stand and people we need that want to come here can make an informed choice.

---------- Post added at 16:36 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------



Good point.

what if they give birth to children whilst here what would be the status of those children ?

Originally Posted by papa smurf

what if they give birth to children whilst here what would be the status of those children ?

Full British Citizenship, with a free house, two cars, three TVs, and credit cards with unlimited spend.

[Carth]

Unofficial guesswork involving an independent survey of 19 people in Burger King, has found that all 23 of them believe the UK has sank 0.76 cm in the past 27 minutes due to the weight of immigration.

Four strangers at a bus stop in Slough have stated that if everyone wore 'air sole' trainers the UK could bounce back

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

what if they give birth to children whilst here what would be the status of those children ?

That's a very valid point you raise. As it stands they would be British and entitled to a payment, which is not something that we want. The BNP already oppose this as they say something along the lines of, if a cat has kittens in the nice warm straw of a stable, it does not follow that it has, therefore, given birth to foals!

The trouble is, if we don't allow any more immigration, this would affect us in the present day e.g. fruit picking.

Could we enact a law that says that certain people born in the UK aren't British, but are the nationality of their parents?? I really don't know.