Britain outside the EU

[Pierre]

This exchange has been as painful as watching a Labour MP try to explain how a woman can have a penis. ( you can guess who this is aimed at)

[1andrew1]

Reports coming out of a Cabinet split between Johnson and Truss on her plans - inspired by the European Research Group - to tear up parts of the Brexit Treaty with the EU.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jfman

Boris warning higher wages mean higher inflation.

So the high skill, high wage economy was another lie?

You are right. This lie is structurally impossible given the nature of our economy and the priorities of Tory government. They are in power for one reason and one reason only and that is to continue the unequal distribution of wealth to the ultra-wealthy.

A high skill, high wage economy is inconsistent with their goals, and the goals of their wealthy donors. Look the failing NHS, the low state pension, the crumbling state infrastructure and then ask yourself who are they working for?

Yes, you will get the useful idiots who will claim that it will be "fine" and they will "level up". More lies so the morons who believed them last time will do so again.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jfman

Boris warning higher wages mean higher inflation.

So the high skill, high wage economy was another lie?

Johnson has swapped highly-skilled jobs in science via the EU Horizon programme for low-paid farm and service sector jobs.

He wants to pander to the DUP more than he wants a high wage economy.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Johnson has swapped highly-skilled jobs in science via the EU Horizon programme for low-paid farm and service sector jobs.

He wants to pander to the DUP more than he wants a high wage economy.

In summary, he does not have a clue. He is more concerned on saving his own skin and pandering to his own ego than doing what is the country's best interest.

Here's a visual of the OECD growth projections:



The bottom is the country that the world has sanctioned and the one next to bottom is the one that imposed sanctions on itself

[jonbxx]

A high skill, high wage economy is a noble aim but there is a problem - who does the low wage, low skill jobs? This has been a problem since the Blair years where many more people went to university and got those high skills and corresponding high wages. We were told to get an education or we would be flipping burgers. The problem is now who is going to flip the burgers?

EU immigration was a useful sticking plaster that covered this gap and (whisper it quietly) successive governments were quite happy to let this continue, especially as EU immigrants were the only personal net contributors to UK taxation over the period of their life in the UK.

Education in this country seems to be doing well in doing more vocational courses. My eldest has just picked her A levels but the choices for vocational education looked really good too. However, there needs to be a sea change in how jobs like building, care, etc. are seen in this country. In Germany, these jobs aren't seen as jobs for people not smart enough to get higher education but true vocations in themselves. I am not sure sure careers are so well respected in the UK

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

A high skill, high wage economy is a noble aim but there is a problem - who does the low wage, low skill jobs? This has been a problem since the Blair years where many more people went to university and got those high skills and corresponding high wages. We were told to get an education or we would be flipping burgers. The problem is now who is going to flip the burgers?

EU immigration was a useful sticking plaster that covered this gap and (whisper it quietly) successive governments were quite happy to let this continue, especially as EU immigrants were the only personal net contributors to UK taxation over the period of their life in the UK.

Education in this country seems to be doing well in doing more vocational courses. My eldest has just picked her A levels but the choices for vocational education looked really good too. However, there needs to be a sea change in how jobs like building, care, etc. are seen in this country. In Germany, these jobs aren't seen as jobs for people not smart enough to get higher education but true vocations in themselves. I am not sure sure careers are so well respected in the UK

A sound analysis, above. Again, we are being offered sound bites (high skill/high wage) by that liar Boris but no prospect of achieving it because there is no structural plan.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

A high skill, high wage economy is a noble aim but there is a problem - who does the low wage, low skill jobs? This has been a problem since the Blair years where many more people went to university and got those high skills and corresponding high wages. We were told to get an education or we would be flipping burgers. The problem is now who is going to flip the burgers?

EU immigration was a useful sticking plaster that covered this gap and (whisper it quietly) successive governments were quite happy to let this continue, especially as EU immigrants were the only personal net contributors to UK taxation over the period of their life in the UK.

Education in this country seems to be doing well in doing more vocational courses. My eldest has just picked her A levels but the choices for vocational education looked really good too. However, there needs to be a sea change in how jobs like building, care, etc. are seen in this country. In Germany, these jobs aren't seen as jobs for people not smart enough to get higher education but true vocations in themselves. I am not sure sure careers are so well respected in the UK

Really good points esp. about societal respect for non-academic careers. As I mentioned before, this country is not structured for the same career journey an Electrician might have in Germany for example. The class system we have here demands that people like Electricians, Builders, Plumbers, etc are labelled as "Working Class" and should be treated as such.

The high profit, low wage economy we are moving further towards is inconsistent with the high wage, high skill PR pitch. You look at the graduates leaving Uni and trying to find jobs and tell me most get high wage jobs. Not in my experience they don't esp. if they are not skilled in the "right" ones. Got an Arts degree? Good luck ..

---------- Post added at 09:33 ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

A sound analysis, above. Again, we are being offered sound bites (high skill/high wage) by that liar Boris but no prospect of achieving it because there is no structural plan.

An exact précis

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You are right. This lie is structurally impossible given the nature of our economy and the priorities of Tory government. They are in power for one reason and one reason only and that is to continue the unequal distribution of wealth to the ultra-wealthy.

A high skill, high wage economy is inconsistent with their goals, and the goals of their wealthy donors. Look the failing NHS, the low state pension, the crumbling state infrastructure and then ask yourself who are they working for?

Yes, you will get the useful idiots who will claim that it will be "fine" and they will "level up". More lies so the morons who believed them last time will do so again.

It is a pity that Boris's failings allow you to get away with what you've written above.

In truth, politicians want their slice of power more than anything else. Political donations play their part for both Labour and Conservatives; the former by way of union donations with their agenda, and latter with business interests that feel they'll prosper better under the Tories.

Then there's Boris's lot who came under fire for the express lane when trying to obtain masks and the like. I could justify that particular instance (and will if you ask me to), but the press didn't make it look good.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It is a pity that Boris's failings allow you to get away with what you've written above.

In truth, politicians want their slice of power more than anything else. Political donations play their part for both Labour and Conservatives; the former by way of union donations with their agenda, and latter with business interests that feel they'll prosper better under the Tories.

Then there's Boris's lot who came under fire for the express lane when trying to obtain masks and the like. I could justify that particular instance (and will if you ask me to), but the press didn't make it look good.

Some context to underline my point:

In 2010, there were 29 billionaires in the UK. In 2021, there are now 171. Despite the economic turmoil, 24 people became billionaires in UK during pandemic. These are the true winners from Tory government.

I am surprised you are willing to justify & support visible corruption. The VIP lane was just that.

https://www.transparency.org.uk/cour...vid-19-inquiry

High Court ruling that the VIP lane was unlawful, and urges the UK government to include public contracting during the pandemic within the terms of the COVID-19 Inquiry, due to start in Spring 2022, as soon as possible.

The judgement ruled that the VIP lane conferred preferential treatment on bids and that the approach for allocating offers to the VIP lane was flawed. In April 2021, our Track and Trace report highlighted concerns over what we found to be ‘systemic bias’. Overall, the research found that one in five PPE contracts awarded from February to November 2020 raised one or more red flags for corruption.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Really good points esp. about societal respect for non-academic careers. As I mentioned before, this country is not structured for the same career journey an Electrician might have in Germany for example. The class system we have here demands that people like Electricians, Builders, Plumbers, etc are labelled as "Working Class" and should be treated as such.

The high profit, low wage economy we are moving further towards is inconsistent with the high wage, high skill PR pitch. You look at the graduates leaving Uni and trying to find jobs and tell me most get high wage jobs. Not in my experience they don't esp. if they are not skilled in the "right" ones. Got an Arts degree? Good luck ..[COLOR="Silver"]

There was of course a very different appreciation in the last couple of years as a lot of the people we are talking about here were key workers, keeping the country running. The applause didn't really last long did it...

That is a good point about degrees but I guess it depends on what you class the degree as being for. You could argue that degrees with an obvious end point such as medicine and law are almost vocational courses in their own right while other are education for the sake of learning. It doesn't mean that those degrees are worthless unless you want to work directly in the field of art history for example as they show that the graduate has the drive to learn independently. I mean, if someone who studies classics can get to the top spot, there must be some value..

In Ireland, non-'vocational' degrees do not get much funding these days as there is a continuing drive to boost the skills of the Irish population. The country of James Joyce and Brendan Behan has no one studying their works at a high level

[tweetiepooh]

Fiscal "policy" needs to apply to everyone. In the good times you save a bit so in the hard times you have something to help you through, that is you don't increase your spending to match your income. (Now please I do understand that there will be some who can't do this.) We have only really been able to put a good bit aside since 2019 when the mortgage was paid off but once it was we didn't spend all the surplus other than when every goes wrong at once - new car, boiler, washing machine, solar panel inverter etc. Plus children off to uni and my participating in some training.


The same is true on the macro scale, in the good years you save so in the bad times you have that resource to use but (generally) the Labour crew like to spend and the Tories don't like to collect.

[1andrew1]

As Crime Minister of the UK, how do you distract from being found guilty of breaking British laws that you made? Maybe have a crack at breaking some international ones?

EU to take legal action over UK bill to rip up Northern Ireland protocol

Boris Johnson defends ‘trivial’ adjustments, saying Good Friday Agreement trumps Brexit deal

Brussels is to launch legal action against the UK as early as Monday, as a chorus of criticism greeted Boris Johnson’s plan to unilaterally rip up his 2020 Brexit deal with the EU covering trade with Northern Ireland.

Simon Coveney, Ireland’s foreign minister, said Johnson’s unilateral approach marked a “new low”, while a majority of elected members of Northern Ireland’s assembly also attacked the move.

If the UK refuses to pay and comply with its judgment, the EU could end parts of its post-Brexit trade deal, applying tariffs to British goods. Brussels has already indicated it will exclude British scientists from the €95bn Horizon Europe research project, in its first economic reprisal.

The US has also urged Johnson to negotiate with Brussels a settlement to the Northern Ireland problem. Joe Biden, US president, and EU leaders are likely to confront Johnson on the issue at a G7 summit in Germany later this month.

In response to the legislation, Maroš Šefčovič, the European commissioner for Brexit, is expected on Monday afternoon to ask the commission to issue an opinion on the paused legal case — on a unilateral UK decision to delay checks on goods and pets — the final step before going to court.

https://www.ft.com/content/02891815-...1-31c7b592aeef

Of course, signing the original deal was a bit awkward when you had promised no checks to NI back in 2019!

There will not be checks, and I speak as the prime minister of the United Kingdom, and a passionate unionist. There will not be checks on goods going from Northern Ireland to Great Britain because we’re the government of the United Kingdom and we will not institute or implement or enact such checks.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...checked-brexit

[1andrew1]

The absurdity of the government's actions is neatly summarised in this Tweet.

I am confused. The Protocol represents such a threat to the stability of the UK that it is legal to breach the international treaty which created it, yet the threat is not serious enough to trigger the clause within the treaty specifically to deal with such a threat, Article 16?

https://twitter.com/arthistorynews/s...04598751043585

Some good analysis here from David Allen Green. Another waste of taxpayers' money by this government.

There are no possible circumstances where the United Kingdom can resort to the the principle of “necessity” under international law without going through the Article 16 process first.

And the government – despite many threats – has not triggered the Article 16 process.

The “position” published today even admits the government believes that the Article 16 were met:

“In July 2021, however, the Government assessed in the Command Paper that, as a result of both diversion of trade and serious societal and economic difficulties occasioned by the Protocol, the conditions for the exercise of the rights provided for under Article 16 of the Protocol were already met.”

But the government then did nothing under Article 16 on that basis.

For the government to not trigger Article 16 instead of resorting to the the principle of “necessity” under international law is beyond rational comprehension.

Wookies coming from Endor makes more sense.

And there is even more.

So “necessary” is this proposal that the legislation will take at least months, if not a year to pass into statute.

Such a leisurely timeline does not indicate urgency – and it does not show that the problem is “grave and imminent”.

https://davidallengreen.com/

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

As Crime Minister of the UK…………

Who’d you steal that from?