28-12-2021, 16:59
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#3586
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
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Posts: 42,044
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
We had the best turkey ever this year, courtesy of our local farm shop.
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Our turkey was just as good as the last couple years, as it was, as usual, from our local farm shop.
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28-12-2021, 17:30
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#3587
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,398
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
You really don't understand Brexit, being so overcome by bitterness.
The average Leave supporter was not fooled by any "sunny upland" spiel any more than he/she was fooled/worried by Osborne's dire warning of being £4,300 worse off per year.
The average leave supporter just wanted to get out of the EU's clutches and very obviously understood there would be a period of economic adjustment.
Admittedly it doesn't help that we have a shit PM at the moment who can't be trusted to take good economic decisions. But Covid has spannered the works somewhat and the likes of you should be supporting the UK's move forward rather than whinging on the sidelines.
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Drop the personal attacks please.
I understand Brexit very well. There is no "average" Leave voter as such. Some voted for altruistic reasons, some voted uncaring of the damage it would cause because the hatred of the EU outweighed any cost, some voted the way that their favourite media outlet encouraged them to, some voted in a perverse xenophobic temper tantrum, etc.
What is clear, and will remain clear in spite of your personal attacks, is that most thought that there would be no real serious downside:
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/0...endum-and-why/
Quote:
The impact:
More than three quarters (77%) of those who voted to remain thought “the decision we make in the referendum could have disastrous consequences for us as a country if we get it wrong”.
More than two thirds (69%) of leavers, by contrast, thought the decision “might make us a bit better or worse off as a country, but there probably isn’t much in it either way”.
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Just so we are clear: long term 4% loss of GBP is not "a period of economic adjustment"
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28-12-2021, 17:34
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#3588
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Lord Ashcroft didn't consult me, and I'm going to guess he also didn't consult anyone I know.
Any old fool can show results from a poll of 'choice' participants
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28-12-2021, 17:42
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#3589
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,096
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
Lord Ashcroft didn't consult me, and I'm going to guess he also didn't consult anyone I know.
Any old fool can show results from a poll of 'choice' participants
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Correct, whatever fits their agenda.
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28-12-2021, 18:01
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#3590
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
Drop the personal attacks please.
I understand Brexit very well. There is no "average" Leave voter as such. Some voted for altruistic reasons, some voted uncaring of the damage it would cause because the hatred of the EU outweighed any cost, some voted the way that their favourite media outlet encouraged them to, some voted in a perverse xenophobic temper tantrum, etc.
What is clear, and will remain clear in spite of your personal attacks, is that most thought that there would be no real serious downside:
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/0...endum-and-why/
Just so we are clear: long term 4% loss of GBP is not "a period of economic adjustment"
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That works both ways.
Actually, as a remainer, you simply do not understand what the average Brexiteers wanted. You assume, and you assume wrong.
Most voted to control immigration, escape EU bureaucracy and regain our sovereignty. Our destiny lies in our ability to make our own laws, not to accept laws designed by a remote bureaucracy with no electoral mandate.
The difficulties we are having in the first year post Brexit are transitional, including your 4% loss of GDP. This will be recouped in bounds in future years.
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28-12-2021, 18:10
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#3591
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,398
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max
Correct, whatever fits their agenda.
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Bless
---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:05 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
That works both ways.
Actually, as a remainer, you simply do not understand what the average Brexiteers wanted. You assume, and you assume wrong.
Most voted to control immigration, escape EU bureaucracy and regain our sovereignty. Our destiny lies in our ability to make our own laws, not to accept laws designed by a remote bureaucracy with no electoral mandate.
The difficulties we are having in the first year post Brexit are transitional, including your 4% loss of GDP. This will be recouped in bounds in future years.
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I do not assume anything. I am informed by the information I research. I would encourage this approach.
Please no more sunlit uplands rubbish. If you have evidence, share it otherwise cease the baseless propaganda.
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28-12-2021, 18:20
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#3592
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,096
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
Bless
---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:05 ----------
I do not assume anything. I am informed by the information I research. I would encourage this approach.
Please no more sunlit uplands rubbish. If you have evidence, share it otherwise cease the baseless propaganda.
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PMSL....
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28-12-2021, 18:40
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#3593
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Simples
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
Bless
---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:05 ----------
I do not assume anything. I am informed by the information I research. I would encourage this approach.
Please no more sunlit uplands rubbish. If you have evidence, share it otherwise cease the baseless propaganda.
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First of all, I have not made any insults towards you. Just because I judge you to be whinging, and say so, does not constitute an insult. Obviously, I wouldn't want to cause you any offence.
But I do want to stick it to you on Brexit.
On the bit I highlighted, yeah yeah, yeah. You've been an arch-Remainer since day 1 of this debate and I'd bet your allegiance to the Remain cause had nothing to do with any researched information. You may even have believed the Project Fear rubbish and that isn't impressive. You mention a 4% reduction in GDP since Brexit; putting aside Covid effects, UK business now has to make the adjustments which I expect to take years. Government needs to play its part in assisting the development of manufacturing.
As we keep telling you, escaping the EU's smothering regulations and clutches is what this is all about. Not 4% of GDP which will be recovered.
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28-12-2021, 18:56
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#3594
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,188
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
First of all, I have not made any insults towards you. Just because I judge you to be whinging, and say so, does not constitute an insult. Obviously, I wouldn't want to cause you any offence.
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I suspect "being so overcome by bitterness" can be read as an insult even if it was not intended to be so.
The 4% reduction in GDP is permanent, not a temporary matter and is on top of any reduction from Covid 19. We're choosing to erect non-tariff trade barriers with our large trading bloc in exchange for a little bit more sovereignty. These non-tariff barriers come at a cost.
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28-12-2021, 19:04
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#3595
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,568
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
Bless
---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:05 ----------
I do not assume anything. I am informed by the information I research. I would encourage this approach.
Please no more sunlit uplands rubbish. If you have evidence, share it otherwise cease the baseless propaganda.
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The information you research appears to be from the perspective of remainers. You read what you want to read and reject opposing views.
As for sunlit uplands, you need to be patient. The transition from winter to summer is not instant.
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28-12-2021, 19:09
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#3596
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,044
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
The information you research appears to be from the perspective of remainers. You read what you want to read and reject opposing views.
As for sunlit uplands, you need to be patient. The transition from winter to summer is not instant.
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Do you mean the Poll he quoted from Lord Ashcroft, the staunch Brexiteer?
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/14742/
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There is always light.
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If only we’re brave enough to be it.
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28-12-2021, 19:50
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#3597
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Simples
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
I suspect "being so overcome by bitterness" can be read as an insult even if it was not intended to be so.
The 4% reduction in GDP is permanent, not a temporary matter and is on top of any reduction from Covid 19. We're choosing to erect non-tariff trade barriers with our large trading bloc in exchange for a little bit more sovereignty. These non-tariff barriers come at a cost.
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I hope you don't find this insulting, Andrew: You're singing Ian's tune. "... for a little bit more sovereignty". 52% of the voting population bought into that. Sovereignty (not the illusory "sunny uplands").
From our sovereign position, we can build without worrying what the French will say as they try to dominate the EU in Merkel's absence.
You have no idea whether or not the 4% reduction in GDP is permanent. I'd say that the UK will eventually sail past this - with better government, of course and that's not certain.
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My advice is at your risk.
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28-12-2021, 20:31
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#3598
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,398
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
First of all, I have not made any insults towards you. Just because I judge you to be whinging, and say so, does not constitute an insult. Obviously, I wouldn't want to cause you any offence.
But I do want to stick it to you on Brexit.
On the bit I highlighted, yeah yeah, yeah. You've been an arch-Remainer since day 1 of this debate and I'd bet your allegiance to the Remain cause had nothing to do with any researched information. You may even have believed the Project Fear rubbish and that isn't impressive. You mention a 4% reduction in GDP since Brexit; putting aside Covid effects, UK business now has to make the adjustments which I expect to take years. Government needs to play its part in assisting the development of manufacturing.
As we keep telling you, escaping the EU's smothering regulations and clutches is what this is all about. Not 4% of GDP which will be recovered.
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I really do not care why you voted for Leave. You can justify it to yourself until the cows come home. It really does not matter one iota. You can call me this name or that name, again it really does not matter. If you get your kicks doing this, great good for you.
What I care about is the damage done to the country and the poisonous legacy it has gifted our children.
---------- Post added at 19:31 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
The information you research appears to be from the perspective of remainers. You read what you want to read and reject opposing views.
As for sunlit uplands, you need to be patient. The transition from winter to summer is not instant.
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I oppose sunlit uplands hot air in the same way you rejected 'Project Fear". So, I await your submissions of the myriad Brexit benefits that surround us.
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28-12-2021, 20:37
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#3599
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Some people care enough about it, they keep telling us why we voted even though we've never been asked
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28-12-2021, 20:39
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#3600
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,398
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Warning, Brexit joke ahead! Those with a sensitive disposition, please look away now
Quote:
Apparently, the first task for the newly launched James Webb telescope will be to search the universe for Brexit benefits.
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