Britain outside the EU

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Blackshep

Yes Ben let's have a nice big open door because that always works so well.

At what point have I suggested a 'nice big open door'?

[Carth]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

So let me understand what is being said here then.

We should make it too difficult to get to the UK and claim asylum here. We should also not set up any legal asylum routes to the UK anywhere other than online because it might take a lot of work.

But all other countries outside the UK should make sure we don't need to deal with any of it too, deal with the work that will entail that we don't want to do, and if they don't we'll blame them?

You're like some of the others here, you read something then twist it because you didn't understand it.

[Blackshep]

That's generally what "making it easier to get here" ends up being. We're full and our society has had no chance to stabilise or catch up on the extra infrastructure that's needed. The only thing happening right now with the amount of illegals getting in is gifting far right groups a boost in members not something that's good or positive for the country.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Carth

You're like some of the others here, you read something then twist it because you didn't understand it.

Explain to me then what I've got wrong?

I'm understand that we need to do something, but for me we should be establishing proper asylum and refugee routes to the UK from regions in the world where it's not safe for people and where we can give them hope and a better option.

Apparently we left the EU to be 'global Britain'. Part of that is being part of the global solution to why people are seeking asylum and refugee status.

Long term its working to make it so that the need for asylum and refugee status is reduced. In the short term its working with the rest of the world to take in those that we can help.

[Blackshep]

How many is too many to take in?, where do they all go? and what communities are expected to tolerate them?.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Blackshep

How many is too many to take in?, where do they all go? and what communities are expected to tolerate them?.

All valid questions, but ones that aren't being discussed properly as a good chunk of the debate is 'how do we stop it happening at all' and not 'how do we make it happen in way that we can manage successfully'.

If I understand these figures correctly (and always happy to be corrected if I haven't), our number of known refugee population is no greater than it was in the 1960s. We have half the refugees in the UK now than we did 20 years ago

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...alue_desc=true

There are many factors as to why the numbers have moved around over the last 60 odd years, but we're 30th in list for current refugee numbers and there are many countries in the world that take in more refuges per percentage of their population than we do, many of which have significantly less resources to support them than we do too - https://www.nrc.no/perspectives/2020...most-refugees/

[Blackshep]

The number of illegals in the UK is in the millions even the home office has given up pretending they know exactly that's the problem. What's the attraction of the UK to so many it's that we are a weak country we bend to any and every group we demand the traditional British welcome, tolerate and adapt to newcomer's. They don't integrate, they don't adapt, they don't adopt our values and demand we tolerate their culture, religion and traditions even though they have no intention of reciprocating.

Make it mandatory to be fluent both verbally and written in English, assign their housing so they cannot group in large numbers, restrict healthcare for the first 10 years, issue temporary safety visas for refugees and actively crack down on the illegals already here no more pussy footing about in the communities harbouring them. Do that and watch the attractiveness of the UK rapidly decline but mainly stop asking people to welcome and tolerate newcomers until they deserve it.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Blackshep

The number of illegals in the UK is in the millions even the home office has given up pretending they know exactly that's the problem.

As of March 2020 the total inward migration to the UK for the previous year was 715,000

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...fings/sn06077/

Of that figure the number we offered asylum to was 20,339 people

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...est-statistics

Where we do have people here illegally, I would think that most of it is down to them being here initially via legal immigration routes e.g. visa overstays, and not via any asylum or refugee claims.



---------- Post added at 00:44 ---------- Previous post was at 00:25 ----------

Originally Posted by Blackshep

They don't integrate, they don't adapt, they don't adopt our values and demand we tolerate their culture, religion and traditions even though they have no intention of reciprocating.

That is plainly not true. Do you actually know anyone who has come to the UK from another country?

Most people who've come here that I've met and worked with over my life have taken active interest in their community - a lot of times more so than the 'native' residents including me.

Also - https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u...nts-in-the-uk/

A large majority (89% or 7,086,000) of the foreign born living in the UK self-reported speaking English well or very well in the 2011 Census. Just over half of the foreign born population (51%) had English as their main language in 2011. Among the 11% with limited English language skills, 15% said they could not speak English at all (138,000 or 1.6% of the foreign-born population). Among the UK-born population, less than 0.1% reported not being able to speak English well or at all (58,000)

Make it mandatory to be fluent both verbally and written in English

Already part of the non-refugee rules
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigrat...%20application.

assign their housing so they cannot group in large numbers

Who are 'they' other than a xenophobic 'other', and why would should we do that for 'them' when we don't do it for 'us'?

restrict healthcare for the first 10 years,

Temporary immigrants already have an NHS surcharge. Immigrants who gain residency to the UK qualify the same as any other UK citizen.

issue temporary safety visas for refugees

That is the whole point of the asylum process that we should be doing today - allowing them to have legal visas and where possible a way to contribute to our country. Instead we stop them doing so.

but mainly stop asking people to welcome and tolerate newcomers until they deserve it.

I would hope we never end up in this country with that attitude again. Otherwise we risk going back to the colonial and racist attitudes of the past

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Paul

Relatives that also sneaked in illegally ?
If they have valid relatives, how about they apply using proper processes.

Speaking English is not a valid reason to try and sneak into the UK.

You forgot this bit at the bottom though ;



Of course, there will always be people who make up excuses for them.

‘Seen’ != true

---------- Post added at 07:25 ---------- Previous post was at 07:24 ----------

Originally Posted by Blackshep

How many is too many to take in?, where do they all go? and what communities are expected to tolerate them?.

Expected to tolerate ? What are these people going to do to upset and/or annoy ?

[Blackshep]

I work with some fantastic individuals who have integrated and adapted since arriving in the UK but large numbers don't they enter the country and immediately locate to an established area and never progress. I've seen it in Birmingham, Bradford, Leicester and London and I've also seen how those communities expand when their numbers become too large for their original area.

What I meant by restricting healthcare is they cannot fly their relatives in long enough to get expensive treatment on the NHS something which is rampant in certain area's according to numerous NHS staff. As for not allowing them to group it isn't racist or xenophobic it's common sense if integration is truly the goal not allowing them to create and maintain essentially ghettos will encourage integration while giving communities an opportunity to establish a relationship.

Pretty sure if I was racist or xenophobic I would be saying stop all immigration which I haven't but good of you to invoke the default response oh and the longing for return to empire implication by the time I was born there was no empire and hadn't been for a while.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Blackshep

I work with some fantastic individuals who have integrated and adapted since arriving in the UK but large numbers don't they enter the country and immediately locate to an established area and never progress. I've seen it in Birmingham, Bradford, Leicester and London and I've also seen how those communities expand when their numbers become too large for their original area.

What I meant by restricting healthcare is they cannot fly their relatives in long enough to get expensive treatment on the NHS something which is rampant in certain area's according to numerous NHS staff. As for not allowing them to group it isn't racist or xenophobic it's common sense if integration is truly the goal not allowing them to create and maintain essentially ghettos will encourage integration while giving communities an opportunity to establish a relationship.

Pretty sure if I was racist or xenophobic I would be saying stop all immigration which I haven't but good of you to invoke the default response oh and the longing for return to empire implication by the time I was born there was no empire and hadn't been for a while.

There you have it. Integration of certain different cultures is do-gooder pie in the sky.

There are at least two cultures that, imo, integrate well even though they often establish localised communities of their own. By "integrate well", I mean just get on with their lives and have no obvious concept of an infidel with whom to disagree.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

That's why I said 'legal system' not 'justice system'.

The ability to appeal a legal decision extends past the justice system, because even then it is not 100% infallible. Just ask the Windrush generation.

Did you argue that for Owen Paterson, Ben? There seem to be a lot of double standards here.

If they come over on a dinghy, they are entering illegally and should be sent back, full stop. France has now backed down and indicated that they would accept that.

But France is also correct in saying there should be a legitimate way to claim asylum from France. The solution is so simple.

---------- Post added at 19:12 ---------- Previous post was at 19:09 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Agreed.

And surely it's more cost-effective as those who are approved can then get into the job market and pay taxes etc whilst those aren't can hopefully be deported with less time needed to house and feed both categories of people.

---------- Post added at 22:20 ---------- Previous post was at 22:16 ----------


Being part of the EU meant we could return people to France and use the Europol database.

Well, as you will have seen on the news, France is prepared to agree to have illegal migrants from there back. One more so called ‘disadvantage of leaving the EU’ removed.

---------- Post added at 19:19 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

Originally Posted by Blackshep

The number of illegals in the UK is in the millions even the home office has given up pretending they know exactly that's the problem. What's the attraction of the UK to so many it's that we are a weak country we bend to any and every group we demand the traditional British welcome, tolerate and adapt to newcomer's. They don't integrate, they don't adapt, they don't adopt our values and demand we tolerate their culture, religion and traditions even though they have no intention of reciprocating.

Make it mandatory to be fluent both verbally and written in English, assign their housing so they cannot group in large numbers, restrict healthcare for the first 10 years, issue temporary safety visas for refugees and actively crack down on the illegals already here no more pussy footing about in the communities harbouring them. Do that and watch the attractiveness of the UK rapidly decline but mainly stop asking people to welcome and tolerate newcomers until they deserve it.

We have a number of Indians, Hong Kongers and Chinese in my area and they are all integrating nicely.

The Ugandan Asians who came over here during Idi Amin’s rule have not only integrated but have been very successful since being in the UK.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

<SNIP>

We have a number of Indians, Hong Kongers and Chinese in my area and they are all integrating nicely.

The Ugandan Asians who came over here during Idi Amin’s rule have not only integrated but have been very successful since being in the UK.

Exactamundo.

---------- Post added at 20:36 ---------- Previous post was at 19:32 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

<SNIP>

Well, as you will have seen on the news, France is prepared to agree to have illegal migrants from there back. One more so called ‘disadvantage of leaving the EU’ removed.

I've tried finding it in the news (BBC, SKY, GBNews, ITV) and nix. What's the source and is it authoritative?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I've tried finding it in the news (BBC, SKY, GBNews, ITV) and nix. What's the source and is it authoritative?

I suspect Old Boy misheard the news. Here's the latest news.

The deal set to be proposed by France could include ways to ensure that unaccompanied minors can safely reach Britain to rejoin family, instead of putting themselves at the mercy of traffickers, Darmanin said.

But he rejected proposals that would see Britain unilaterally force migrant boats back to France, saying it was against international maritime law and would put people's lives in danger.

"We cannot accept this practice," he said.

He also rejected calls to have French police intercept migrant boats already in the water, saying it was a dangerous method that migrants would resist in any case.

He reiterated calls for Britain to implement a legal route for migrants to seek asylum, claiming that it would discourage people from trying to make the Channel crossing in the first place.

https://news.yahoo.com/france-offer-...kip=1638218622

[Jaymoss]

and clear the French camps, stuff the French. Just hope Boris has the spine to stand up to them

French police see a boat on the beach stop them going into the sea. If they have to put a bullet in the boat. Simples