Britain outside the EU

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I’m sure there’s many that do, ask Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe how her appeal’s going?

Besides, refusal of admission is not a mis-carriage of “Justice”, they’re not guilty of anything. They just haven’t proven their right to settle here.

That's why I said 'legal system' not 'justice system'.

The ability to appeal a legal decision extends past the justice system, because even then it is not 100% infallible. Just ask the Windrush generation.

Originally Posted by Carth

oh and:

Hes spot on, as I said previously - stop making it attractive to come here.
There is clearly something fundamentally wrong when they all want to pass through France (and others European countries) just to get the the UK.

[mrmistoffelees]

Or, they have relatives here, or they speak English perhaps ?

Working illegally in the U.K. is nowhere near as easy as it used to be, and there are large fines dished out to employers who break these rules.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Paul

Hes spot on, as I said previously - stop making it attractive to come here.
There is clearly something fundamentally wrong when they all want to pass through France (and others European countries) just to get the the UK.

One of the reasons for coming is our reputation for respect of law and human rights, so once the government removes the Human Rights legislation, criminalise any form of protest and have the ability to remove citizenship from many people born in the UK without notice, then it'll feel no different than their home countries, and won't be as much as a draw.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Yes, we can’t stop them coming. So when they get here we need to process them very quickly and return unsuccessful ones. So others get the message not to try it on chance as failure will result in you going back to square 1.

Agreed.

And surely it's more cost-effective as those who are approved can then get into the job market and pay taxes etc whilst those aren't can hopefully be deported with less time needed to house and feed both categories of people.

---------- Post added at 22:20 ---------- Previous post was at 22:16 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

If being part of the EU was part of a solution, how come they did and still do, reach Calais in the first place? How many other EU countries did they pass through?

Being part of the EU meant we could return people to France and use the Europol database.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Or, they have relatives here, or they speak English perhaps ?

Relatives that also sneaked in illegally ?
If they have valid relatives, how about they apply using proper processes.

Speaking English is not a valid reason to try and sneak into the UK.

You forgot this bit at the bottom though ;

the UK is seen as a better place to gain informal work without the necessary paperwork.

Of course, there will always be people who make up excuses for them.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Paul

If they have valid relatives, how about they apply using proper processes.

You mean the one that requires people to apply online?

https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/partner-spouse

Outside the UK
You must apply online from outside the UK.

---------- Post added at 23:05 ---------- Previous post was at 22:57 ----------

The current situation is that we have no practical options for people to claim asylum to the UK while they're outside the UK in their home country, and we'll try to deny asylum or refugee status for people coming to the UK if they've travelled through a 'safe' country which may be all EU countries.

Even where the government have said they'd establish a legal route to come straight to the UK - its not been done yet

The best way to legalise anything is to make the legal options more attractive than the illegal ones. We're not currently doing that in any meaningful way for asylum and refugees.

[Blackshep]

Pick them up on the south coast, drive them to Dover and put them on the first ferry back to France hell pay the ferry fee it will still be massively cheaper then holding them here. Unless they come off a plane or ship from outside the EU we have no duty to take them in and we've taken too many as it is. Blair should face some consequence for his blind eye to unchecked immigration that he helped under his government to change the society of the UK.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

You mean the one that requires people to apply online?

That would seem to be the process, yes.

How you apply depends on whether you’re in the UK or not.

[if] Outside the UK
You must apply online from outside the UK.

[if] In the UK
You must apply online in the UK.

So if youre outside the UK, you apply from outside the UK (pretty obvious really).
I believe the internet still works in France.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

The current situation is that we have no practical options for people to claim asylum to the UK while they're outside the UK in their home country

Its perfectly practical, europe has the internet you know.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

we'll try to deny asylum for people coming to the UK if they've travelled through a 'safe' country which will be all EU countries.

Who is coming to the UK without passing through a safe country ?
Certainly none of those crossing the channel, since they start in France.
Seems we should try harder.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Paul

That would seem to be the process, yes.

So if youre outside the UK, you apply from outside the UK (pretty obvious really).
I believe the internet still works in France.


Its perfectly practical, europe has the internet you know.

But the argument is that if you're already in the EU, it's safe and we shouldn't let them come to the UK. So the application could be denied. Countries where they are not safe likely don't have a safe internet connection for them to make the application.

So by design it's either you can't apply online, or if you can then we'll probably say no anyway.

Who is coming to the UK without passing through a safe country ?
Certainly none of those crossing the channel, since they start in France.
Seems we should try harder.

Yes, we should try harder to make it so that they don't need to travel through the EU in order to apply for UK asylum or refugee status. Glad you agree on that.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Yes, we should try harder to make it so that they don't need to travel through the EU in order to apply for UK asylum or refugee status. Glad you agree on that.

Dont try and be a smart arse, or I'll just delete it next time.

We should try harder to stop/deny them, you know very well that is what I was saying.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

You mean the one that requires people to apply online?

https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/partner-spouse


---------- Post added at 23:05 ---------- Previous post was at 22:57 ----------

The current situation is that we have no practical options for people to claim asylum to the UK while they're outside the UK in their home country, and we'll try to deny asylum or refugee status for people coming to the UK if they've travelled through a 'safe' country which may be all EU countries.

Even where the government have said they'd establish a legal route to come straight to the UK - its not been done yet

The best way to legalise anything is to make the legal options more attractive than the illegal ones. We're not currently doing that in any meaningful way for asylum and refugees.

That makes a great soundbite for the Media and human rights lot . . but I fear if we did that we'd be snowed under for years with applications from anyone, anywhere, and the long waiting list would still make some risk the boat trip.
There's also the potential that 'relaxed' or 'fast track' applications could mean the 'wrong uns' slip through the net too.

[1andrew1]

Meanwhile, editors at The Sunday Telegraph and The Spectator are having Bregrets.

Leading Brexit advocates notice the shine has come off it

Some of the loudest voices behind the Brexit campaign at The Telegraph seem to be losing faith in the project

Disillusionment is setting in at The Telegraph. All the bright hopes resting on Brexit are slowly dying. Some of its staunchest advocates are finding it hard to disguise their disappointment.

Allister Heath, editor of the Sunday Telegraph and Fraser Nelson, occupying Boris Johnson’s old job as editor of The Spectator, both had articles (£) in the daily edition of The Telegraph this week bemoaning the fact that Brexit isn’t going quite as well as they hoped.

The two editors are having serious doubts about the project they championed in 2016. It is as if they are slowly coming to suspect that they might have been wrong, although neither is quite prepared to say so just yet.

This comes after just ten months outside the EU. Jacob Rees-Mogg once talked about the benefits not materialising for 50 years, so they may have to curb their impatience.

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/news/...s-come-off-it/

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Paul

Dont try and be a smart arse, or I'll just delete it next time.

We should try harder to stop/deny them, you know very well that is what I was saying.

Originally Posted by Carth

That makes a great soundbite for the Media and human rights lot . . but I fear if we did that we'd be snowed under for years with applications from anyone, anywhere, and the long waiting list would still make some risk the boat trip.
There's also the potential that 'relaxed' or 'fast track' applications could mean the 'wrong uns' slip through the net too.

So let me understand what is being said here then.

We should make it too difficult to get to the UK and claim asylum here. We should also not set up any legal asylum routes to the UK anywhere other than online because it might take a lot of work.

But all other countries outside the UK should make sure we don't need to deal with any of it too, deal with the work that will entail that we don't want to do, and if they don't we'll blame them?

[Blackshep]

If we had a competent and confident government some benefits might be showing but we've got boris the buffoon and co who can't remember what real conservatism is and spend too much time placating woke prats.

---------- Post added at 23:43 ---------- Previous post was at 23:41 ----------

Yes Ben let's have a nice big open door because that always works so well.