Britain outside the EU

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

BP now announced that some fuel stations will close due to the hgv driver shortage. And before the usual suspects chime in with ‘it’s not Brexit it’s the pandemic’ the managing director of Britains biggest haulage was on bbc news the other day and quite categorically stated that the pandemic had only highlighted the issue and that the primary cause was indeed our departure from the EU

Yeah but blue passports.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

BP now announced that some fuel stations will close due to the hgv driver shortage. And before the usual suspects chime in with ‘it’s not Brexit it’s the pandemic’ the managing director of Britains biggest haulage was on bbc news the other day and quite categorically stated that the pandemic had only highlighted the issue and that the primary cause was indeed our departure from the EU

Sure, a problem known to exist on every continent of the world barring Africa is definitely all about Brexit. Honestly, I have no idea why you lot keep flogging this dead horse. The story has been debunked multiple times - most memorably in recent weeks by IKEA blaming Brexit driver shortages for non-availability of certain products in the UK, while blaming delays in shipping from the Far East for non availability of exactly the same products in Netherlands. Unsurprisingly IKEA UK withdrew that particular press release pretty rapidly, once they realised they’d been caught out.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/14...pandemic-Covid

It really is extremely simple: it is far easier to blame Brexit for anything that goes wrong in the UK at the moment than to admit to any shortcomings in ones own business strategy, because a significant portion of the population, the Twitterati and certain sections of the Press will swallow and regurgitate it uncritically.

We have an HGV driver shortage because HGV drivers have been treated like crud over many years. If Brexit has any part to play in this, it’s that our timely exit has only exposed an unsustainable situation that actually exists right across Europe. In the meantime, I can’t possibly imagine why the boss of a haulage company would prefer to blame Brexit than to blame himself for paying crap wages.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris

Sure, a problem known to exist on every continent of the world barring Africa is definitely all about Brexit. Honestly, I have no idea why you lot keep flogging this dead horse. The story has been debunked multiple times - most memorably in recent weeks by IKEA blaming Brexit driver shortages for non-availability of certain products in the UK, while blaming delays in shipping from the Far East for non availability of exactly the same products in Netherlands. Unsurprisingly IKEA UK withdrew that particular press release pretty rapidly, once they realised they’d been caught out.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/14...pandemic-Covid

It really is extremely simple: it is far easier to blame Brexit for anything that goes wrong in the UK at the moment than to admit to any shortcomings in ones own business strategy, because a significant portion of the population, the Twitterati and certain sections of the Press will swallow and regurgitate it uncritically.

We have an HGV driver shortage because HGV drivers have been treated like crud over many years. If Brexit has any part to play in this, it’s that our timely exit has only exposed an unsustainable situation that actually exists right across Europe. In the meantime, I can’t possibly imagine why the boss of a haulage company would prefer to blame Brexit than to blame himself for paying crap wages.

Because my old mucka, as I’m sure you’re aware yet for some reason won’t disclose. The problem is far far worse in the U.K. then it is in the rest of Europe. Again that was clearly stated by the MD of the haulage distributors.

Now, who’s right? The managing director of Britains biggest HGV distribution network? Or, you?

Might I suggest that if you have evidence that counters the above then I’m sure that bbc/sky news would love to feature you explaining it.

Ultimately, here’s the question, how many more shortages/issues will it take for you to stop and consider Brexit to be an issue? Or, will you blindly support it so long as you’re not directly affected ?

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Because my old mucka, as I’m sure you’re aware yet for some reason won’t disclose. The problem is far far worse in the U.K. then it is in the rest of Europe. Again that was clearly stated by the MD of the haulage distributors.

Now, who’s right? The managing director of Britains biggest HGV distribution network? Or, you?

Might I suggest that if you have evidence that counters the above then I’m sure that bbc/sky news would love to feature you explaining it.

Ultimately, here’s the question, how many more shortages/issues will it take for you to stop and consider Brexit to be an issue? Or, will you blindly support it so long as you’re not directly affected ?

He supports it and so do I - the EU is corrupted to the core and we do not need to be in it, sick of saying this, one day it will sink in with you remainers.

We voted to leave the EU and I and would so again and again and AGAIN.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mick

He supports it and so do I - the EU is corrupted to the core and we do not need to be in it, sick of saying this, one day it will sink in with you remainers.

We voted to leave the EU and I and would so again and again and AGAIN.

I’d politely ask the same question to you, how many shortages or disruptions would it take before you have to consider it to be an issue? Or, will it be if it only causes you or your family hardship ?

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Mick

He supports it and so do I - the EU is corrupted to the core and we do not need to be in it, sick of saying this, one day it will sink in with you remainers.

We voted to leave the EU and I and would so again and again and AGAIN.

Likewise.

Even the US is seeing a shortage of drivers.

https://www.globaltrademag.com/why-d...king-shortage/

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Because my old mucka, as I’m sure you’re aware yet for some reason won’t disclose. The problem is far far worse in the U.K. then it is in the rest of Europe. Again that was clearly stated by the MD of the haulage distributors.

Now, who’s right? The managing director of Britains biggest HGV distribution network? Or, you?

Might I suggest that if you have evidence that counters the above then I’m sure that bbc/sky news would love to feature you explaining it.

Ultimately, here’s the question, how many more shortages/issues will it take for you to stop and consider Brexit to be an issue? Or, will you blindly support it so long as you’re not directly affected ?

I’ve seen nothing that changes my mind - including the self-serving representations of those who used the EU’s regulatory environment to enrich themselves at the expense of ordinary Britons, or as cover for their own internationalist political outlook.

Any short-term issues we do face, we will deal with. Unsurprisingly the vast majority of the world seems to get by without being in the EU. I happen not to think the UK is uniquely incapable of doing so.

[1andrew1]

Regarding the driver shortage, other EU countries do have shortages but they're not as severe as the UK's 100k vacancies.

From a Daily Mail arguing Brexit is not to blame:
Germany: 40k-60k
Italy: 15k
France: 43k
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-400-000.html

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I’d politely ask the same question to you, how many shortages or disruptions would it take before you have to consider it to be an issue? Or, will it be if it only causes you or your family hardship ?

Shortages?

What shortages?

My supermarket shelves are adequately stocked - I just filled my car up with no issue - stop panicking by blindly following the news. If there is shortages elsewhere, it's probably people panic buying because of the damn news feeding in to itself.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mick

Shortages?

What shortages?

My supermarket shelves are adequately stocked - I just filled my car up with no issue - stop panicking by blindly following the news. If there is shortages elsewhere, it's probably people panic buying because of the damn news feeding in to itself.

Hi Mick, with respect , just because these issues aren’t happening to you doesn’t say they’re not happening at all.

This issue is going to get worse before it gets better.

---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

I’ve seen nothing that changes my mind - including the self-serving representations of those who used the EU’s regulatory environment to enrich themselves at the expense of ordinary Britons, or as cover for their own internationalist political outlook.

Any short-term issues we do face, we will deal with. Unsurprisingly the vast majority of the world seems to get by without being in the EU. I happen not to think the UK is uniquely incapable of doing so.

Again, respectfully, to counter that your words are purely to defend Brexit at any cost, therefore treating this as an algebraic equation once we remove each sides political stance were left with one persons considerable experience vs your….?

[tweetiepooh]

It won't be helped if people panic buy. Folks who get hit are those who bulk buy infrequently when they can. So I just stocked up on bog roll, kitchen paper, rice etc because it's time I did not because I'm worried.

[mrmistoffelees]

I also find it somewhat incredulous that one of the reasons that some (not all) people gave as one of the reasons for wishing to leave the EU was the rules regarding state intervention.

Yet here we are with energy firms failing significant job losses, increased fuel costs for over 1.5m people and the U.K. government letting them go to the wall.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Hi Mick, with respect , just because these issues aren’t happening to you doesn’t say they’re not happening at all.

This issue is going to get worse before it gets better.

---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:13 ----------




Again, respectfully, to counter that your words are purely to defend Brexit at any cost, therefore treating this as an algebraic equation once we remove each sides political stance were left with one persons considerable experience vs your….?

Not at all.

You have offered, firstly, a straw man. I don’t defend Brexit at any cost. I simply point out that I don’t believe “at any cost” (I.e. the most extreme worst case) will arise, and that so far I’m correct.

Second, you have offered an appeal to authority. Relevant experience earns a hearing, it does not earn automatic, uncritical acceptance. As you have offered no rationale for accepting this person’s view other than their job title I can only conclude this is what you’re doing.

A critical appraisal of any opinion must include some attempt to understand the context in which they’re speaking and their motivations for doing so. Such as, in this case, the likelihood that they have permanently lost their means of undercutting British drivers wages by hiring east European ones.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

It won't be helped if people panic buy. Folks who get hit are those who bulk buy infrequently when they can. So I just stocked up on bog roll, kitchen paper, rice etc because it's time I did not because I'm worried.

Salient point, but as the old expression goes, never underestimate the power of large groups of stupid people.

[tweetiepooh]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I also find it somewhat incredulous that one of the reasons that some (not all) people gave as one of the reasons for wishing to leave the EU was the rules regarding state intervention.

Yet here we are with energy firms failing significant job losses, increased fuel costs for over 1.5m people and the U.K. government letting them go to the wall.

People and firms (generally) want the government to keep out of the way, minimise interference and definitely low taxes.


Until of course they get into trouble then they want the government to spend money they haven't collected to protect them and "interfere" like never seen before. But if they don't then it's the poor and weak that are worst affected.