Election 2019, Week 1

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Scottish domestic agenda or British domestic agenda?

He needs to draw attention to SNP failures and promote the Conservative manifesto. He also needs to talk more about how Brexit will benefit, rather than penalise Britain, since Project Fear appears to have convinced many that the sky will fall in when we leave.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Agreed. However, I would add that the Conservatives should try to prise the conversation away from a Scottish referendum and on to the domestic agenda, where the SNP has not done too well at all.

In what respect? By almost any devolved comparator Scotland outperforms England and Wales. The last thing the Conservatives want to do is talk about anything other than the constitution in Scotland.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

In what respect? By almost any devolved comparator Scotland outperforms England and Wales. The last thing the Conservatives want to do is talk about anything other than the constitution in Scotland.

Really? Now who would you take this from? Ooh, I know!

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/arti...rs-snp-failure

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Really? Now who would you take this from? Ooh, I know!

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/arti...rs-snp-failure

While I appreciate you have diversified your sources to the extent you consider the Morning Star credible none of that contradicts the statement I made.

The Scottish Government budget is, of course, cut with Tory austerity which has material impact on their ability to deliver. However, we can confidently say the people of Scotland would elect them once more. They know whose door to lay the blame at.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

He needs to draw attention to SNP failures and promote the Conservative manifesto. He also needs to talk more about how Brexit will benefit, rather than penalise Britain, since Project Fear appears to have convinced many that the sky will fall in when we leave.

He really doesn’t.

Scottish politics is Balkanised to an extent few people outside the country can appreciate. The constitution is the defining subject, with the SNP (and their useful idiots, the Scottish Greens) on one side, and everyone else on the other. Everything is viewed through the lens of the independence cause and how good or bad a proposition it is. In the current climate the only way to mount a credible challenge to the SNP in Scotland is to be seen as the party of the union. The Tories under Ruth Davidson got quite good at that, and that is why they are the second party in Scotland, ahead of Labour in both Westminster and Holyrood seats.

Boris Johnson’s bumbling upper class public schoolboy persona does not play well in Scotland. It is far too easy for his opponents to portray him as out of touch, regardless of how appealing his message actually is (and Scotland is a surprisingly socially conservative country - its sentiments are not quite as progressive or socialist as they are frequently made out to be).

The only thing that will win Tories votes in Scotland next month is a clear, simple message that they will not allow another independence referendum under any circumstances.

[jfman]

It'd be nice to see the unionist parties show some kind of progressive vision for Scotland rather than see how Union Flaggy they can be to appeal to Rangers fans/Orange Order and telling them the SNP threaten their 17th century way of life.

It'll only ever appeal to a population dying out.

[nashville]

Maybe the L D will take some seats from the SNP, !

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

It'd be nice to see the unionist parties show some kind of progressive vision for Scotland rather than see how Union Flaggy they can be to appeal to Rangers fans/Orange Order and telling them the SNP threaten their 17th century way of life.

It'll only ever appeal to a population dying out.

You do realise that Pope Alexander VIII supported William of Orange.

It is said that a Mass of deliverance was celebrated in Rome after King William's victory.

King James was the last of the Stuart kings who hankered after absolute rule. King Billy, though he was no democrat, astutely accepted the supremacy of parliament.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

You do realise that Pope Alexander VIII supported William of Orange.

Yes he did.

However, three centuries later it is an absolute irrelevance to the point I made about unionist party strategies in Scotland post 2014.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

Yes he did.

However, three centuries later it is an absolute irrelevance to the point I made about unionist party strategies in Scotland post 2014.

You were the one that brought the 17th century into it.

Originally Posted by jfman

It'd be nice to see the unionist parties show some kind of progressive vision for Scotland rather than see how Union Flaggy they can be to appeal to Rangers fans/Orange Order and telling them the SNP threaten their 17th century way of life.

It'll only ever appeal to a population dying out.

Again ... something of a misreading of how things are around here right now. The one thing unionist politicians try very hard at in Scotland is not associating themselves with the Orange Order (or Rangers FC).

The key selling point is, primarily, an end to the divisive negative rhetoric of the nationalists, but also the slowly growing sense that the Nats have never had their eye on the ball as the Scottish government and that a lot of things have been going slowly wrong over an extended period.

The claim that kids are all Nats and it’s pensioners that are keeping Scotland in the union is nonsense that was cooked up while the Yes campaign was getting its excuses ready in the dying days of the campaign in 2014. Polling has never borne this out. Scottish nationalism is driven largely by angry men aged between 30 and 50, a worrying number of whom also believe in chemtrails and black helicopters.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

You were the one that brought the 17th century into it.

I didn’t say the 17th century was invalid just your narrow point that only sought to deflect mine rather than address it.

---------- Post added at 22:11 ---------- Previous post was at 22:03 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Again ... something of a misreading of how things are around here right now. The one thing unionist politicians try very hard at in Scotland is not associating themselves with the Orange Order (or Rangers FC).

The key selling point is, primarily, an end to the divisive negative rhetoric of the nationalists, but also the slowly growing sense that the Nats have never had their eye on the ball as the Scottish government and that a lot of things have been going slowly wrong over an extended period.

The claim that kids are all Nats and it’s pensioners that are keeping Scotland in the union is nonsense that was cooked up while the Yes campaign was getting its excuses ready in the dying days of the campaign in 2014. Polling has never borne this out. Scottish nationalism is driven largely by angry men aged between 30 and 50, a worrying number of whom also believe in chemtrails and black helicopters.

I think the polling data shows there’s an age gap, although by dying out I did mean the Orange Order and those that see Scottish nationalism (and Celtic’s utter dominance of Scottish football to a lesser degree) as an attack on their way of life. Those driven by the sinister notion that decision making is being led by the unseen fenian hand.

While none overtly associate with the Orange Order the union flag waving nationalism goes (red?) hand in hand.

The independence question will never be truly settled while unionists fail to offer a compelling alternative to the SNP, or demonstrate that Westminster decision making is anything other than London/south east centric. They aren’t even trying to win over “soft” SNP votes among the 45% who did vote for independence. It’s all a battle for the 50-55% who don’t, and that doesn’t win Scottish elections.

Originally Posted by nomadking

You were the one that brought the 17th century into it.

The Orange Order is alive and well in Scotland at the present time - it’s no throwback to the 17th century to mention them in today’s context.

Electoral Calculus has new seat predictions accounting for the Brexit Party’s decision not to field candidates in seats where Tories won in 2017. Surprisingly the prediction is that a number of seats the SNP might have won in Scotland will now stay blue. Obviously it’s just a statistical exercise but it does show what a complex game this is.

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html

[mrmistoffelees]

Labour Party digital systems subject to attempted cyber attack.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4284776.html

This could get interesting !