Online Safety Bill

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Paul

Why not, Facebook is 13, Tiktok is 13, Snapchat is 13, Instagram is 13 ... Seeing the pattern yet ?

I imagine that they've done this to align it with the others. However, it wasn't too long ago rhat the Government wanted to be able to see encrypted messages and WhatsApp said that they would resist this and ultimately pull out if the UK if needs be. Ultimately this move to lower the age to 13 can only antagonise the legislators.

At some point I think we'll come to a situation where it will have to be decided who ultimately decides these things, the Government of the day or social media platforms.

---------- Post added at 02:22 ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

And why should responsible children with responsible parents be the victims of arbitrary regulation?

Such legislation has to be arbitrary as it cannot distinguish between the two groups.

Responsible parents wouldn't be allowing 3 year olds onto social media, but may allow a young teen onto it. It's these immature minds that are being contacted by hebophiles, usually for sexual purposes.

[jfman]

Or... the people? The vast, vast, vast majority of whom are giving their kids smartphones.

---------- Post added at 02:29 ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 ----------

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Such legislation has to be arbitrary as it cannot distinguish between the two groups.

Which is where it fails. Legislating over the people requires the consent of them. Land Rover parents want to locate their kids with their iPhones on GPS. If the poor parents don't care where their kids are why should the rich ones be denied a security device?

Responsible parents wouldn't be allowing 3 year olds onto social media, but may allow a young teen onto it. It's these immature minds that are being contacted by hebophiles, usually for sexual purposes.

Would love to see the stats on grooming (by total strangers) over WhatsApp alone as a percentage of all grooming.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by jfman

Or... the people? The vast, vast, vast majority of whom are giving their kids smartphones.

---------- Post added at 02:29 ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 ----------



Which is where it fails. Legislating over the people requires the consent of them. Land Rover parents want to locate their kids with their iPhones on GPS. If the poor parents don't care where their kids are why should the rich ones be denied a security device?



Would love to see the stats on grooming (by total strangers) over WhatsApp alone as a percentage of all grooming.

Well, in theory the Government represents the will of the people.

I don't think it's possible to define whether being rich or poor defines whether one is a good patent or not. I've known terrible rich parents and excellent poor parents.

Both paedophile & hebophiles find social media attractive because they think that they can anonymously obtain sexual gratification by talking sexually to children and/or send & receive pornographic pictures. Some will groom them and attempt to meet them for sex.

If you do a search for videos of paedophile hunter videos you'll see how prolific on this sort of contact is on social media. These groups regularly post 'stings' day after day to highlight their activity and (I assume) to make people think twice about doing it.

Of course, things like cyber flashing can also be done to adults and, whilst this may upset or offend them, it's much more serious when attempts are made to sexualise children.

They find it difficult to form relationships as adults, can turn to alcohol or drugs, or even end their own lives.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Well, in theory the Government represents the will of the people.

I don't think it's possible to define whether being rich or poor defines whether one is a good patent or not. I've known terrible rich parents and excellent poor parents.

To be clear: I didn't say that.

I said rich parents would object that parenting decisions be removed from them on the basis of the lowest common denominator.

Having a phone, or device, they could locate by GPS is a safeguard a parent may wish to use. I say this as someone who has considered this for an older person.

Both paedophile & hebophiles find social media attractive because they think that they can anonymously obtain sexual gratification by talking sexually to children and/or send & receive pornographic pictures. Some will groom them and attempt to meet them for sex.

If you do a search for videos of paedophile hunter videos you'll see how prolific on this sort of contact is on social media. These groups regularly post 'stings' day after day to highlight their activity and (I assume) to make people think twice about doing it.

Of course, things like cyber flashing can also be done to adults and, whilst this may upset or offend them, it's much more serious when attempts are made to sexualise children.

I'm most definitely not putting the word 'paedophile' into any search engine.

So WhatsApp specifically has nothing to do with any of this?

They find it difficult to form relationships as adults, can turn to alcohol or drugs, or even end their own lives.

People end their lives, all the time, for a variety of reasons that there is limited appetite to investigate or resolve.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by jfman

To be clear: I didn't say that.

I said rich parents would object that parenting decisions be removed from them on the basis of the lowest common denominator.

Having a phone, or device, they could locate by GPS is a safeguard a parent may wish to use. I say this as someone who has considered this for an older person.



I'm most definitely not putting the word 'paedophile' into any search engine.

So WhatsApp specifically has nothing to do with any of this?



People end their lives, all the time, for a variety of reasons that there is limited appetite to investigate or resolve.

Whattsapp is the second most popular platform for children. Along with the other social media platforms they are facilitating these issues.

Why don't you want to pit the word paedophile into a search engine? The word has lots of legitimate uses and you won't be exposed to illegal pornographic material.

Originally Posted by jfman

Having a phone, or device, they could locate by GPS is a safeguard a parent may wish to use. I say this as someone who has considered this for an older person..

Very much this. Our kids all attended high school in a rural setting, which means it was some distance from our home and reliant on council funded taxis or minibuses for at least part of the journey in and out - unless of course there was an after school club or a planned visit to a friend’s house which might be in a different village or (not uncommon in our case) on a farm literally in the middle of nowhere.

Find My is the single biggest reason our whole family have iPhones and is the reason we have been able to give our kids freedom to have a social life they would not otherwise have had, given where they grew up. It is not primarily about surveillance - (us making sure they are where they say they are) but much more about contingency planning when times or venues change, or when we have to find one of them on a friend’s farm somewhere.

Also, now two of them are young adults and learning how to negotiate city life, sometimes they’re grateful that when they get stuck, I can see where they are and either advise them where to go to get a bus/train/taxi or else come out and collect them myself. The eldest one, having his own phone account, is of course under no obligation to keep Find My switched on for his parents as it’s his phone, which he’s paying for, but even he is happy for it to remain on.

Off topic, but the unspoken contract with the young adults in our family is that even though me & missus can see where they are at all times we never ask them ‘how did you enjoy town last night?’ - we ask them what they got up to on their weekend same as our parents would have asked us, and let them tell us as much or as little as they want.

[RichardCoulter]

It would be a shame to lose this safety aspect if smartphones were ever banned for U16's.

If they are, a budding entrepreneur should invent a device that can carry out this function that isn't a smartphone.

[jfman]

Nobody is proposing to ban the use of smartphones by under 16s or any credible mechanism for enforcing it.

A ban on the sale of something by age doesn’t stop access to it.

Such devices already exist although I’m sure “can I put this GPS tracker on you?” is much less appealing to a teenager than “you can have an iPhone, but find my iPhone stays on”.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

It would be a shame to lose this safety aspect if smartphones were ever banned for U16's.

If they are, a budding entrepreneur should invent a device that can carry out this function that isn't a smartphone.

They already exist for Apple and Android…

https://www.apple.com/uk/airtag/

https://www.independent.co.uk/extras...-b2526969.html

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

It would be a shame to lose this safety aspect if smartphones were ever banned for U16's.

If they are, a budding entrepreneur should invent a device that can carry out this function that isn't a smartphone.

You keep saying ‘if’ as if it is in any way likely to happen.

It is not going to happen. It is not even slightly likely.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Hugh

They already exist for Apple and Android…

https://www.apple.com/uk/airtag/

https://www.independent.co.uk/extras...-b2526969.html

What a good idea, these would be useful for keeping an eye on luggage whilst travelling.

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

What a good idea, these would be useful for keeping an eye on luggage whilst travelling.

Must be very lucky travelled more times than I recall ( must be well over a hundred times) trans Atlantic and across the States never lost any luggage. Unlike a trip to Belgium case went to India

Originally Posted by Chris

Find My is the single biggest reason our whole family have iPhones and is the reason we have been able to give our kids freedom to have a social life they would not otherwise have had

I feel I should point out this is not unique to iPhones, I have it activated on my Android phones, and can log into my google account to locate them.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Paul

I feel I should point out this is not unique to iPhones, I have it activated on my Android phones, and can log into my google account to locate them.

I have Android, how much are they Paul?

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There was a programme on ITV earlier called 'Olivia Atwood Vs The Trolls'. It tells the story of how she was trolled and how she managed to speak to one to ask why they did it. This trolling won't have done her ADHD any good:

https://www.itv.com/watch/olivia-att...trolls/10a3897

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I have Android, how much are they

How much are what ? Phones ?