Britain outside the EU - Page 54

GrimUpNorth · 30-04-2021, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Yes - but Norway is a diversion from the point I'm making, which is about the EU.

So to get it straight, you are complaining that the EU are not being nice or fair because they are planning to stick to the terms of a treaty that we have signed with them? So to turn your statement around, I suppose I am challenging the Leavers to recognise that the EU are following the terms of the treaty as signed.

Sephiroth · 30-04-2021, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Sorry - the forum has put Norway in the same post as my response to you as it was posted within a similar time frame. It's not meant to form part of my reply to you, but I think others and I have responded comprehensively to you about that opinion piece.

Well, yes. A couple of responses from Remainers who are basically saying that the EU is only seeking to enforce the treaty. And I'm saying, if they call us "our British friend" then they should try to understand and help ease the problems. The EU Parliament was scathing about the UK; if we cannot have friendly relations, then we should treat them accordingly.

1andrew1 · 30-04-2021, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Well, yes. A couple of responses from Remainers who are basically saying that the EU is only seeking to enforce the treaty. And I'm saying, if they call us "our British friend" then they should try to understand and help ease the problems. The EU Parliament was scathing about the UK; if we cannot have friendly relations, then we should treat them accordingly.

I don't think you should get upset because members of the European Parliament have a view on Brexit being a mistake; MEPs are entitled to express their opinions.

The UK signed up for a relationship with the EU outside the Single Market and Customs Union which causes trade friction, despite what you might have been led to believe. If the UK wants to ease its problems by removing trade friction then it needs to consider re-joining them and I'm sure our European friends will understand and co-operate here as necessary.

Sephiroth · 30-04-2021, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I don't think you should get upset because members of the European Parliament have a view on Brexit being a mistake; MEPs are entitled to express their opinions.

The UK signed up for a relationship with the EU outside the Single Market and Customs Union which causes trade friction, despite what you might have been led to believe. If the UK wants to ease its problems by removing trade friction then it needs to consider re-joining them and I'm sure our European friends will understand and co-operate here as necessary.

The serious problem with that option is that the UK public will not want to rejoin the EU having witnessed everything that's going on there, especially VdL's threatening and unfriendly behaviour; particularly because of Macron's nastiness throughout the negotiations and standing behind VdL.

I'm saying that if they can't help us ease the problems, then we should be done with them.

1andrew1 · 30-04-2021, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The serious problem with that option is that the UK public will not want to rejoin the EU...

"rejoin them" referred to the Single Market and Customs Union, not the EU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I'm saying that if they can't help us ease the problems, then we should be done with them.

I'm sure they can help us ease the problems, but the solution might not make for comfortable reading for you!

I'm not sure what form "being done with them" might take, as we have left the EU!

OLD BOY · 30-04-2021, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

"rejoin them" referred to the Single Market and Customs Union, not the EU.

I don’t think you’ve grasped the problem with that! Brexiteers voted to regain their sovereignty and to forge our own trade deals to increase the wealth-making capacity of this country.

Re-joining the Single Market and Customs Union puts us in a worse position than had we not left the EU. Why on Earth would any sensible person want that?

Sephiroth · 30-04-2021, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

"rejoin them" referred to the Single Market and Customs Union, not the EU.

I'm sure they can help us ease the problems, but the solution might not make for comfortable reading for you!

I'm not sure what form "being done with them" might take, as we have left the EU!

For a start, not referring to them as "our friends" but rather to take a colder tone so as to properly reflect their tone.

Then to realign our agricultural sector so that cheeses and other products we import become home-grown. I think that's an adjustment that will naturally occur as farmers seize the opportunity.

Just be shot of them.

1andrew1 · 30-04-2021, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I don’t think you’ve grasped the problem with that! Brexiteers voted to regain their sovereignty and to forge our own trade deals to increase the wealth-making capacity of this country.

Re-joining the Single Market and Customs Union puts us in a worse position than had we not left the EU. Why on Earth would any sensible person want that?

I was explaining to Seph how trade friction could be avoided which seems to be his objective. I noted he wouldn't like the solution!

Sephiroth · 30-04-2021, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I was explaining to Seph how trade friction could be avoided which seems to be his objective. I noted he wouldn't like the solution!

Reduced trade friction between the UK & EU is not an attractive proposition because it means that they make the rules. As OB said, the majority of the UK didn't want that and the EU's current behaviour militates against any reconciliation.

Threatening to turn off the vaccine tap was, effectively, a potential death threat to many Brits. Enemy comes to mind.

1andrew1 · 01-05-2021, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Threatening to turn off the vaccine tap was, effectively, a potential death threat to many Brits. Enemy comes to mind.

Our European friends have supplied us with millions of vaccine doses. That situation was not about threatening the UK, it was about putting pressure on AstraZeneca. How many doses have we supplied our European friends with?

papa smurf · 01-05-2021, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Our European friends have supplied us with millions of vaccine doses. That situation was not about threatening the UK, it was about putting pressure on AstraZeneca. How many doses have we supplied our European friends with?

The factories in Europe that we signed contracts with supplied millions of vaccines as per contractual agreement, the Eu supplied nothing that i am aware of.

heero_yuy · 01-05-2021, 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

The factories in Europe that we signed contracts with supplied millions of vaccines as per contractual agreement, the Eu supplied nothing that i am aware of.

Indeed it is the EU that is threatening to stop shipments of vaccine to this country as contracted for.

**Chris** · 01-05-2021, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Our European friends have supplied us with millions of vaccine doses. That situation was not about threatening the UK, it was about putting pressure on AstraZeneca. How many doses have we supplied our European friends with?

Yeah ... let's knock this on the head right now.

To reiterate Papa's point: The EU supplied us with nothing. The British government has contracts with private companies. These have supplied the vaccine. To claim the EU was somehow responsible for this, and that we should be grateful, is to normalise the idea that normal rules of trade and contract exist only at the whim of governments. That says nothing good about respect for rule of law within the EU.

We have no reason to be grateful, or to consider the EU our 'friends', just because they have not yet arbitrarily intervened in the normal flow of international trade between their territory and ours. The same, sadly, cannot be said for Australia.

1andrew1 · 01-05-2021, 11:32

The UK's relationship with the EU is like Sky's with VM's. They'll co-operate when it's in their interests and will compete with each other when it's not.

To pretend that the two are enemies as some suggest is ridiculous and dangerous. The UK's enemies are more likely to be countries Iran and Russia.

Sephiroth · 01-05-2021, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Our European friends have supplied us with millions of vaccine doses. That situation was not about threatening the UK, it was about putting pressure on AstraZeneca. How many doses have we supplied our European friends with?

You're coming out as a true Remainer now. Not quite the 'patriotic Brit' that your self-description would render in peoples' minds. The fact that you provocatively emphasis the term "our European friends" proves that you are blind to the aggressive language publicly deployed by the EU.

The EU has NOT supplied any vaccine to the UK. Commercial factories have produced vaccine and sent it to the UK. Once you start according supremacy of commercial trade to a governmental executive (the EC), then you're on the slippery slope to dictatorship. Not worth of a 'patriotic Brit'.

---------- Post added at 11:35 ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The UK's relationship with the EU is like Sky's with VM's. They'll co-operate when it's in their interests and will compete with each other when it's not.

To pretend that the two are enemies as some suggest is ridiculous and dangerous. The UK's enemies are more likely to be countries Iran and Russia.

That's rather one sided, don't you think?