Brexit (Old)

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by denphone

<SNIP>

We can't blame the EU for everything for what has happened so far in the negotiations thus so far as Theresa May and her government have been pretty much a complete shambles in many aspects since the referendum and the beginning of the talks.

We all know that "NO" was always going to be the word. They did not negotiate in good faith. Why would we want to have anything to do with them? Particularly as Merkel is now trying to engineer a German to take over from Juncker.

[1andrew1]

The EU has said ever since the Chequers proposal was published that key aspects in it were unacceptable. I don't see why that should change just because Theresa May has hopped on a plane. The only people who've changed their minds on Chequers have been BoJo and David Davis.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

How can any of the Remainers in this thread want to be bound into the EU? They have behaved abominably in the "negotiations". Many of us foresaw this two years ago and we should have played hardball then. This would have given us two years to properly plan for no deal.

The Irish PM is as perfidious as they come. He should rot in hell and I hope he breaks into an itchy sweat when the EU descends on him forcing a hard border to bew erected from his side.

Corbyn is a pos who couldn't care a jot for the British people and is behaving irresponsibly in Parliament.

May is a disappointment who has failed to carry the people with her because she ididn't devise the correct negotiation strategy on day 1.

Germany - well do the Remainers want to be governed by German decisions?

We voted to become a 3rd country - do you get it yet?

We have tried to protect our interests and the EU 27 have done the same. It is called Reality ..

More fool them. Onwards to Brexit day.

[ianch99]

Macron is spot on regards the Great Democracy Swindle:

"Brexit is the choice of the British people... pushed by those who predicted easy solutions... Those people are liars. They left the next day so they didn’t have to manage it."

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Macron is spot on regards the Great Democracy Swindle:

He seems very perceptive, can we vote for him

TM has cocked up big time, now the idiots will take over the asylum......God help us...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Macron is spot on regards the Great Democracy Swindle:

If I was the NHS, I would sue the Leave Campaign for using the NHS logo without permission. Use of a brand indicates approval which the campaign didn't have.

---------- Post added at 21:18 ---------- Previous post was at 21:02 ----------

Pressure's on!

Mr Tusk also ratcheted up the pressure on the UK prime minister by announcing that “the moment of truth” in Brexit talks would come at a Brussels summit on October 18, by which point he wanted to see a breakthrough on the question of the Irish border.
“In October we expect maximum progress and results in the Brexit talks,” he said. Only if progress were to be made would he convene another summit in mid-November to finalise the deal, he added.

https://www.ft.com/content/95466282-...4-55b72926558f

It means Mrs May now has four weeks to persuade the EU to accept her Chequers plan or come up with an alternative, as well as agree a backstop solution to avoiding a hard border on the island of Ireland.
Despite the EU's apparent rejection of Chequers, the prime minister used a press conference following Mr Tusk's comments to declare her strategy remains "the only serious and credible proposition on the table" for avoiding friction at the Irish border...
Mrs May's failure to achieve a positive EU response to her Chequers deal will increase pressure on the prime minister ahead of what promises to be a fractious Conservative Party conference later this month.

https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-m...-work-11503460

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Bircho

I edited my original post. There was a typo for the Republic vote - it was 94% in favour not 71% (that was for the vote in favour in the North).

---------- Post added at 14:53 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------



Probably worth adding that when there was the Scottish Independence Vote, a white paper was produced showing the implications to Scotland for both a pro and against independence. It ran to 560 pages - the electorate had the opportunity to have a detailed look at what they were voted for to allow them to make a balanced decision.

I ask the question, if there was a no deal, other than some very recent papers from the Government - of which there are still several to be produced - have the UK electorate really been provided with the detail as to what a no deal looks like so that they can make a real choice?

Good for them. I wonder how many people read that from cover to cover? Even if they did, it was not more than a page on the impact on the economy, wasn't it?

Frankly, the public are not as stupid as you think. Those who voted to leave the EU simply voted to leave. The details are for the politicians, just like it is for manifesto commitments.

Originally Posted by ianch99

Macron is spot on regards the Great Democracy Swindle:

No he isn’t. Utter rubbish.

They weren’t in government to “leave” the next day in the first place!!!

I’m sick of repeating the same stuff all the time.

The Leave campaign were just a campaign. They ceased to be a campaign after 23rd June 2016. They had no responsibility to enact the result and anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly delusional.

We keep bringing up the same shit about lies. Both campaigns lied.

We are going round in circles, yet again about lies and that people didn’t know what they were voting for, bollocks. I know what voted for and expect the choice that won to be carried out in its entirety because I do not want the UK in a corrupted EU.

Brexit is happening. That’s what won the Democratic vote and the result must be enacted.

---------- Post added at 03:11 ---------- Previous post was at 02:49 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

If I was the NHS, I would sue the Leave Campaign for using the NHS logo without permission. Use of a brand indicates approval which the campaign didn't have.

And it did not need. The NHS is a public body, not a corporation.

And to be frank, even if it was, suing them is petty.

[ianch99]

I have mentioned this before but it seems closer now: Brexit means Corbyn.

Labour 'could win 1.5m more votes' by backing Brexit referendum

If Corbyn can be persuaded or more likely made to change his position on Brexit, after all he is a arch Leaver but still a politician, Labour will win a GE if called.

May is desperate and realises this:

That’s why I’m calling on Labour to rule out a second referendum and not take us back to square one.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Pressure's on!

https://www.ft.com/content/95466282-...4-55b72926558f


https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-m...-work-11503460

You seem quite pleased. Unfortunately, the EU's intransigence, if it continues, will simply lead to a 'no deal'. That means WTO, of course.

So any leavers who are cock-a-hoop at the EU's 'rejection' of the Chequers proposals need to ponder the fact that this just means we are one step closer to that position.

Frankly, if I were TM, I would announce at the Conservative Party Conference that although Britain had put 'the only proposal in town' to the EU, it was clear that they still wanted concessions from us despite the fact that they knew there was no room to maneouvre politically in the UK. Consequently, the UK would now be putting all its energy into preparing for a 'no deal' scenario, but that our negotiators would be on hand to resume negotiations if the EU came up with suitable proposals which the UK government would be able to accept. In the meantime, we would be asking the EU for a Canada-style UK trade deal.

It is clear that a 'no deal' will also hurt the EU. If anything will bring them to their senses, that will. Some EU leaders really think that by holding out, we will change our minds about Brexit. How wrong they are!

---------- Post added at 07:55 ---------- Previous post was at 07:50 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

I have mentioned this before but it seems closer now: Brexit means Corbyn.

Labour 'could win 1.5m more votes' by backing Brexit referendum

If Corbyn can be persuaded or more likely made to change his position on Brexit, after all he is a arch Leaver but still a politician, Labour will win a GE if called.

May is desperate and realises this:

That’s why I’m calling on Labour to rule out a second referendum and not take us back to square one.

Of course TM wants Labour to rule out another referendum. She has enough to contend with, without having to constantly engage in that nonsense.

The public has more sense than to vote a Marxist, terrorist supporting geezer like the current Leader of the Labour Party into power. Most don't want another referendum anyway. The result is likely to be the same as last time, of course.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

And it did not need. The NHS is a public body, not a corporation.

And to be frank, even if it was, suing them is petty.

The ownership doesn't matter. You have to sue to deter others and protect your reputation.

Andrew, yes it does matter. NHS is a tax payer funded public institution, so in essence it belongs to the people, not one single person or entity.

As for Corbyn, there will not be a General Election, any time soon, the fixed term Parliament Act says so. There would have to be a vote put to parliament.

Labour had this apparent glorious Manifesto, where they supported Brexit, if they did an about turn they would lose a lot of UKIP votes.

These people in the Remain camp hoping for a another referendum, do you think if Remain won, it would all be hunky dory?

You are delusional. There would be untold demands for another vote, why should you get another vote and it be implemented when the 2016 result is ignored?

And we keep going having tons of votes because undemocratic, selfish people who will not accept the democratic result in 2016, want us to keep going until they get the result they want.

We had a vote, leave won. Thus, we are leaving the EU on 29th March 2019.

[jonbxx]

I'm pretty surprised the heads of state went in so hard to be honest. Chequers was never going to fly - trusting the UK to collect EU tariffs after the UK has been censured for not collecting tariffs properly in the past was never an option. Countries don't trust each other, hence the need for a solid governance system in trade deals.

However, Theresa May was probably the EUs best bet for a deal, hence the reluctance to say an outright 'no' from the start. If she goes, will her replacement be more amenable to what the EU wants? I would say almost certainly no, May was probably the most EU friendly potential leader of the Conservative party at present. Therefore the other heads of state and the EU have a vested interest in keeping her in power. To go in hard just before the party conference sounds like they have given up on keeping May in power.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

I'm pretty surprised the heads of state went in so hard to be honest. Chequers was never going to fly - trusting the UK to collect EU tariffs after the UK has been censured for not collecting tariffs properly in the past was never an option. Countries don't trust each other, hence the need for a solid governance system in trade deals.

However, Theresa May was probably the EUs best bet for a deal, hence the reluctance to say an outright 'no' from the start. If she goes, will her replacement be more amenable to what the EU wants? I would say almost certainly no, May was probably the most EU friendly potential leader of the Conservative party at present. Therefore the other heads of state and the EU have a vested interest in keeping her in power. To go in hard just before the party conference sounds like they have given up on keeping May in power.

This could actually strengthen May if she now came out and said, 'Well, we tried, but the fact that the EU is not prepared to come to a mutually beneficial arrangement clearly shows that there is no possibility of a deal until they decide to engage. Accordingly, we will now conentrate on making the necessary WTO arrangements to secure our future enhanced prosperity'.

At that point, I think TM's fortunes will change.