Brexit (Old)

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

some read the leaflet posted through the door explaining exactly what brexit was.

Here's the leaflet:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...ns-if-we-leave

Can you highlight where it is "explaining exactly what brexit [is]"?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Here's the leaflet:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...ns-if-we-leave

Can you highlight where it is "explaining exactly what brexit [is]"?

There is no point in even trying to communicate with a mind so closed to leaving the EU as yours is so i will continue not bothering to try .

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

There is no point in even trying to communicate with a mind so closed to leaving the EU as yours is so i will continue not bothering to try .

Now now, play nicely

When people lie, I will challenge it. You may accept alternative facts, I don't ..

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

FFS stop trotting this bollocks out.

It was stipulated in a leaflet posted to every house in the nation that leaving the EU meant leaving the Single Market and the customs union.

If you didn't read it and/ or understand.........tough.

Maybe we can solve this one if you can help point out to Mr K where it is in the leaflet now that Ian has kindly located it.

Originally Posted by ianch99

Here's the leaflet:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...ns-if-we-leave

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Maybe we can solve this one if you can help point out to Mr K where it is in the leaflet now that Ian has kindly located it.

It clearly says that staying in the EU guarantees staying in the single market, whereas leaving doesn’t.

It clearly states that no country out of the EU has been granted access to the single market without paying into the EU, acccepting EU laws and free movement of people.

It also goes on to state that being outside the single market and not being able to agree a deal we would have to negotiate a new FTA which could take a long time.

The leaflet is very clear that we cannot leave the EU and stay in the Single Market at the level we are now. It clearly states that we would have to negotiate access to the Single market which is not guaranteed

Clear to anyone that can read.

---------- Post added at 22:26 ---------- Previous post was at 22:20 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

Here's the leaflet:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...ns-if-we-leave

Can you highlight where it is "explaining exactly what brexit [is]"?

The whole leaflet explains what the probable outcomes are following a leave vote - which bits don’t you understand and i’ll Try and help you.

---------- Post added at 22:27 ---------- Previous post was at 22:26 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

Now now, play nicely

When people lie, I will challenge it. You may accept alternative facts, I don't ..

Who lied?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Now now, play nicely

When people lie, I will challenge it. You may accept alternative facts, I don't ..

Pierre is 100% correct. Given that every household is supposed to have received the guvmin funded leaflet, they/most/some might have even read it.

It is quite clear from ordinary meaning of the leaflet, that if we voted leave, we would lose whatever "benefits" the guvmin was trying to sell.

52% of those voting chose to reject the guvmin's enticements to remain.

You should not be calling Pierre a liar particularly as I can't call that "piss head" Juncker a "turd".

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Pierre

It clearly says that staying in the EU guarantees staying in the single market, whereas leaving doesn’t.

It clearly states that no country out of the EU has been granted access to the single market without paying into the EU, acccepting EU laws and free movement of people.

It also goes on to state that being outside the single market and not being able to agree a deal we would have to negotiate a new FTA which could take a long time.

The leaflet is very clear that we cannot leave the EU and stay in the Single Market at the level we are now. It clearly states that we would have to negotiate access to the Single market which is not guaranteed

Clear to anyone that can read.

---------- Post added at 22:26 ---------- Previous post was at 22:20 ----------



The whole leaflet explains what the probable outcomes are following a leave vote - which bits don’t you understand and i’ll Try and help you.

---------- Post added at 22:27 ---------- Previous post was at 22:26 ----------



Who lied?

Problem always was with the referendum, the remain group could only sell the status quo. A dull factual booklet has no catch phrases.

The leave group seemed to sell the voters whatever they liked, which in the case of Farage included his belief of staying in the single market.
Then there was the NHS money and immigration, all nice simple things for people to vote for. Immigration was always under UK control the government was just very bad at dealing with it.

People really need to look at who actually lied.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Angua

Problem always was with the referendum, the remain group could only sell the status quo. A dull factual booklet has no catch phrases.

The leave group seemed to sell the voters whatever they liked, which in the case of Farage included his belief of staying in the single market.

on the contrary, Farage has always been against staying in the single market

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...it-anna-soubry

Because he knows that staying in the single market means signing up to the four freedoms and ECJ jurisdiction.

Then there was the NHS money and immigration, all nice simple things for people to vote for. Immigration was always under UK control the government was just very bad at dealing with it.

The government was and still is, able to control non-EU immigration. Which it is bad at.

It is not able to control movement of EU nationals, however it did have the option of delaying freedom of movement to the new eastern European members that the Labour Gov at the time declined to do.

The NHS statement was catchy campaign headline nothing more.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Pierre

on the contrary, Farage has always been against staying in the single market

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...it-anna-soubry

Because he knows that staying in the single market means signing up to the four freedoms and ECJ jurisdiction.



The government was and still is, able to control non-EU immigration. Which it is bad at.

It is not able to control movement of EU nationals, however it did have the option of delaying freedom of movement to the new eastern European members that the Labour Gov at the time declined to do.

The NHS statement was catchy campaign headline nothing more.

It is not what he or Hannan were saying at the time.

[Gavin78]

At the moment there is so much crap floating about it's more confusing than it was before we voted.

I don't even think the EU know what they are doing let alone the UK. This is a test case of a country leaving the EU. It's never been done before especially a country that has been in a long time with so many financial ties.

Leaving which I still vote on will damage the UK as much as it will damage the EU. They need to find a middle ground that won't start the ball rolling for others in the EU to take the same route which I understand from the EU side of it.

However if the chain snaps then it shows how weak the EU project really is and I think they know this.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Angua

It is not what he or Hannan were saying at the time.

Indeed - from your link

And when you remember that Norway are in the Single Market but not the EU, it makes these quotes quite awkward reading.

“Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing
—Nigel Farage, Ukip leader

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Angua

It is not what he or Hannan were saying at the time.

sorry, there's nothing in that article that pins Farage as saying he wants the UK to stay in the single market

[Sephiroth]

Gavin has it.

They are scared schmittless that others might sooner or later leave their poxy project.

Btw, the reason that the European Parliament is so pro-federation is that they’ll trump national parliaments. The Fourth Reich so to speak.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Indeed - from your link

That is not Farage advocating staying in the single market.

That is Farage commenting on the happiness of two countries.

That is the author putting two things together to try and make a story.

If Farage was quoted as saying:

“Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing, ...........and it's because they're in the single market"
—Nigel Farage, Ukip leader

Then you might have had something, but he didn't, and you don't.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...premium-europe

The British and German governments have abandoned key Brexit demands, potentially easing the path for the U.K. to strike a deal with the European Union, people familiar with the matter said. The pound rose.

Germany is ready to accept a less detailed agreement on the U.K.’s future economic and trade ties with the EU in a bid to get a Brexit deal done, according to people speaking on condition of anonymity because the discussions are private. The U.K. side is also willing to settle for a vaguer statement of intent on the future relationship, postponing some decisions until after Brexit day, according to an official who declined to be named.

The fudge is coming