Brexit (Old) - Page 370

Sephiroth · 22-12-2018, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica

But it's not, that's the whole point.

[SEPH]: You are wrong. I carefully explained that had the referendum result been Remain, there would have been no activities to lead to a "what we know now" situation and thus a 2nd referendum. That is why calling for a 2nd referendum now is one sided.

It would deprive me and 17.4 million people of the vote they used in 2016. That cannot be right. Only a Remainer, who wishes to thwart Brexit would stoop to playing the democratic card.

---------- Post added at 17:28 ---------- Previous post was at 17:26 ----------

I said some people. If you don't fall into that category then I don't see what the problem is.

Mythica · 22-12-2018, 17:49

You speak for yourself, stop speaking for the other 17.4 million. While you might be happy, others aren't.

Pierre · 22-12-2018, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica

I'm not answering a question that people should already know or if they don't a quick Google should help. It's been widely reported on many times and I don't want to get drawn into an argument over it. My original point still stands. This isn't a game to me, there is no winners or losers but a second referendum based on what we know now is not anti-democratic. That goes for people who voted leave or remain.

Answer the question. Otherwise I doubt your credibility.

1andrew1 · 22-12-2018, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

Answer the question. Otherwise I doubt your credibility.

We know lots of things. I think it's a bit unrealistic to ask one person to name everything. It sounds like you have a counterpoint waiting in the wings, perhaps you would instead like to share that with us?

**Mick** · 22-12-2018, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica

You speak for yourself, stop speaking for the other 17.4 million. While you might be happy, others aren't.

Firstly - Kindly, do not ever tell others what to do!!!

Secondly, If he or I want to speak for the 17.4 Million who voted for Brexit - we will.

You have made your point for the last day or so - quite a number of people do not agree with you, time to move on now in this discussion.

Sephiroth · 22-12-2018, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

We know lots of things. I think it's a bit unrealistic to ask one person to name everything. It sounds like you have a counterpoint waiting in the wings, perhaps you would instead like to share that with us?

Mythica doesn't have the argument to back up his assertions. And there you go, instead of joining the call for Mythica to justify his assertions, you invent a possible counterpoint and call for that instead.

What I would like to see properly addressed here is the bad side of the EU:

1. German hegemony;
2. French blackmail (Backstop/fishing);
3. Nasty Juncker;
4. Irish perfidy (Backstop as a sham for economic protection).

Mythica · 22-12-2018, 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Firstly - Kindly, do not ever tell others what to do!!!

Secondly, If he or I want to speak for the 17.4 Million who voted for Brexit - we will.

You have made your point for the last day or so - quite a number of people do not agree with you, time to move on now in this discussion.

Why should he be allowed to speak for some people that disagree with him, that needs calling out, he has his own opinion, fine but an argument shouldn't be then brought forward for 17.4 million people who might think different.. Some people want a second referendum based on what we know now.

Oh that's clever isn't it. You WILL speak for 17.4 million people and yet you're calling out those that want a second referendum, undemocratic. Speak for yourself not for others if you want true democracy.

---------- Post added at 18:15 ---------- Previous post was at 18:13 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

We know lots of things. I think it's a bit unrealistic to ask one person to name everything. It sounds like you have a counterpoint waiting in the wings, perhaps you would instead like to share that with us?

Of course they have a counterpart which is why I won't answer as I can't be bothered getting into an argument over it. The facts are there in the media for those that want to know. I just can't stand the people shouting down others saying people are going against democracy because some want a second referendum based on what we know now.

---------- Post added at 18:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:15 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Mythica doesn't have the argument to back up his assertions. And there you go, instead of joining the call for Mythica to justify his assertions, you invent a possible counterpoint and call for that instead.

What I would like to see properly addressed here is the bad side of the EU:

1. German hegemony;
2. French blackmail (Backstop/fishing);
3. Nasty Juncker;
4. Irish perfidy (Backstop as a sham for economic protection).

I said I couldn't be bothered getting into an argument over it when it's all in the media of the lies and half truths. I also said that goes for both side be it leave or remain.

**Mick** · 22-12-2018, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica

Why should he be allowed to speak for some people that disagree with him, that needs calling out, he has his own opinion, fine but an argument shouldn't be then brought forward for 17.4 million people who might think different.. Some people want a second referendum based on what we know now.

And as it has been said to you now, several times, some members do not agree with you, you've made your point, the people who disagree with you, have made theirs - they don't agree with you, so now I am stepping in and telling you to move on with this discussion - this directive is not open to debate.

Carth · 22-12-2018, 18:19

To be perfectly frank and honest, what many know now is how much crying and gnashing of teeth is being done by the remain camp.

Pierre · 22-12-2018, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

We know lots of things. I think it's a bit unrealistic to ask one person to name everything. It sounds like you have a counterpoint waiting in the wings, perhaps you would instead like to share that with us?

I didn’t realise he had a minder, i’m Sure he can speak for himself.

He claims a second referendum is justifiable based on what we now know.

I claim we knew enough before the first referendum and I don’t believe there has been any new information that has come to light after the referendum that we didn’t know before.

So if Mythica believes otherwise then share it, I don’t see what the issue is.

Mr K · 22-12-2018, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

I was actually swayed to vote leave by the actual behaviour of the corrupted and cancerous EU, not by any campaigning by any side.

Do you mean you were 50/50 then Mick? you hid it well

What did you see as the disadvantages of leaving the EU?

Are our MPs any less 'corrupt' ? Look at all the lies during the Brexit vote, cash for questions, MP expense scandals etc etc.... Can't remember any major corruption scandals on the same level in the EU ( apart from Farage never turning up and getting paid and claiming his EU pension which we'll have to fund for him..)

Mythica · 22-12-2018, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

And as it has been said to you now, several times, some members do not agree with you, you've made your point, the people who disagree with you, have made theirs - they don't agree with you, so now I am stepping in and telling you to move on with this discussion - this directive is not open to debate.

I'll move on when people stop mentioning my name in their posts. They also need to move on and stop calling out people saying they are being undemocratic like the post above. You can't shut down one side of the argument, that's not very democratic.

1andrew1 · 22-12-2018, 18:26

One side-effect of Brexit is that other legislation is not being implemented. This was characterised by a recent Evening Standard cartoon which showed a drone representing Brexit and all the grounded aeroplanes representing the legislation that wasn't going to happen.

One thing I didn't realise until checking on the drone story today was that drone legislation which could have helped prevent the Gatwick situation was canned by Chris Grayling as he diverted his civil servants to work on Brexit instead.

Quote:

Transport Secretary Chris Grayling comes under fire after ‘shelving plans to bring in laws regulating drone use’ despite being warned of the risk they posed to airports ‘on multiple occasions’ before Gatwick chaos

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...xit-chaos.html

Mythica · 22-12-2018, 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

I didn’t realise he had a minder, i’m Sure he can speak for himself.

He claims a second referendum is justifiable based on what we now know.

I claim we knew enough before the first referendum and I don’t believe there has been any new information that has come to light after the referendum that we didn’t know before.

So if Mythica believes otherwise then share it, I don’t see what the issue is.

I said that some people want a second referendum based on what we know now which isn't undemocratic. I've not once stated personally I want one.

Carth · 22-12-2018, 18:36

At the risk of annoying Mick (apologies)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica

I said that some people want a second referendum based on what we know now which isn't undemocratic.

I'm interested in how many 'some' is of the 33.5 million who voted, and the percentage of the 'some' who want a second referendum because they didn't vote in the first one.