Election 2019, Week 1

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by denphone

Now lets see how the Conservatives own figures add up as then the undecided's can form our own opinions about each parties financial figures.

Oh hang on the The business minister Kwasi Karteng has decided that us the voters have no right to know what the Conservative financials figures are as well.

https://news.sky.com/story/sophy-rid...ments-11858673

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tics-live-news

The Guardian article prints Javid's response on the Conservative spending plans:

Javid says what comes in in taxes will match the day-to-day spending. We may borrow £20bn to fund capital investments “but we can afford to do that”.

The detail of that will be set out in the manifesto, so this nonsense has been blown up out of proportion. We all know that it is Labour's spending plans that are the ones to watch. Labour cannot be trusted on the economy, and with Corbyn and McDonnell in charge they will oversee spending like nobody has seen before.

I wonder if McDonnell has taken possession of his new money printing machine yet...

---------- Post added at 10:58 ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

While the sums won't add up for their manifesto we can comfortably say they will spend less as they continue to roll back the purpose and function of the state. The relentless attack on the poor will continue, the benefits freeze resume, working terms and conditions reduce. Inequality will rise, food bank use continue to rocket, the fifth richest country in the world will continue to claim it "can't afford" to do otherwise.

What little remaining state assets that can have profit extracted from them will be privatised. The NHS falling prey to US venture capitalists and insurance companies.

Given what you said about Labour's plans, I really need to point out that using the same logic, what you have said cannot possibly be true, because it's not in their manifesto.

As it happens, it isn't true anyway.

[jfman]

It's absolutely true, and the next step in attacking the poor and lowering the tax burden on the wealthy. They're unlikely to stick it on the side of a bus though, are they? That's why it's only when they let their guard down you hear the truth that they hate the poor.

If it's in the Conservative manifesto you can chalk it up to being unlikely. Where are all the starter homes that were promised? Javid can't balance the books and he knows it.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The Guardian article prints Javid's response on the Conservative spending plans:

Javid says what comes in in taxes will match the day-to-day spending. We may borrow £20bn to fund capital investments “but we can afford to do that”.

The detail of that will be set out in the manifesto, so this nonsense has been blown up out of proportion. We all know that it is Labour's spending plans that are the ones to watch. Labour cannot be trusted on the economy, and with Corbyn and McDonnell in charge they will oversee spending like nobody has seen before.

I wonder if McDonnell has taken possession of his new money printing machine yet...

---------- Post added at 10:58 ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 ----------



Given what you said about Labour's plans, I really need to point out that using the same logic, what you have said cannot possibly be true, because it's not in their manifesto.

As it happens, it isn't true anyway.

As usual your posts are about as balanced as a blind novice trying to walk across a tightrope as undecided voters want to know the truth about each parties financial plans before they then decide which party they vote for and what they don't want is some subservient lickspittling sycophant being their constant messenger.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The Guardian article prints Javid's response on the Conservative spending plans:

Javid says what comes in in taxes will match the day-to-day spending. We may borrow £20bn to fund capital investments “but we can afford to do that”.

The detail of that will be set out in the manifesto, so this nonsense has been blown up out of proportion. We all know that it is Labour's spending plans that are the ones to watch. Labour cannot be trusted on the economy, and with Corbyn and McDonnell in charge they will oversee spending like nobody has seen before.

I wonder if McDonnell has taken possession of his new money printing machine yet...

[Carth]

Originally Posted by jfman

Where are all the starter homes that were promised?

Lots of new 'starter homes'* being built around here by companies hand in hand with the local housing mob, (which used to be the council and now has another name, so costs, responsibility and accountability are lost somewhere in the usual goalpost moving thing), and any small plot of unused land is fair game.

Actually there are a great number of pubs and social clubs that have closed due to - well that's another argument - and have been demolished to enable 'affordable'* housing to be built in their place.

* small boxy type things equivalent to 2 storey rabbit hutches, complete with parking space for a fiat 500 and 1.5m square garden

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by denphone

As usual your posts are about as balanced as a blind novice trying to walk across a tightrope as undecided voters want to know the truth about each parties financial plans before they then decide which party they vote for and what they don't want is some subservient lickspittling sycophant being their constant messenger.

So you prefer jfman's view of the world?

Good luck with that.

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

It's absolutely true, and the next step in attacking the poor and lowering the tax burden on the wealthy. They're unlikely to stick it on the side of a bus though, are they? That's why it's only when they let their guard down you hear the truth that they hate the poor.

If it's in the Conservative manifesto you can chalk it up to being unlikely. Where are all the starter homes that were promised? Javid can't balance the books and he knows it.

Listen to yourself! They hate the poor? None of the Conservatives I know hate the poor, and neither do I. I'm beginning to think that you have a perception problem.

There are still a few countries practising Communism around the world, and look how they've looked after their populations. Corbyn and McDonnell are Marxists. They have admitted it, so don't argue about it!

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Carth

Lots of new 'starter homes'* being built around here by companies hand in hand with the local housing mob, (which used to be the council and now has another name, so costs, responsibility and accountability are lost somewhere in the usual goalpost moving thing), and any small plot of unused land is fair game.

Actually there are a great number of pubs and social clubs that have closed due to - well that's another argument - and have been demolished to enable 'affordable'* housing to be built in their place.

* small boxy type things equivalent to 2 storey rabbit hutches, complete with parking space for a fiat 500 and 1.5m square garden

That wasn't the Government commitment, was it?

---------- Post added at 13:11 ---------- Previous post was at 13:10 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

So you prefer jfman's view of the world?

Good luck with that.

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 ----------



Listen to yourself! They hate the poor? None of the Conservatives I know hate the poor, and neither do I. I'm beginning to think that you have a perception problem.

There are still a few countries practising Communism around the world, and look how they've looked after their populations. Corbyn and McDonnell are Marxists. They have admitted it, so don't argue about it!

I'm quoting Dominic Cummings, a man so perceptive he's leading strategic output in Number 10 for Brexit.

It's not a preference for my view of the world, as you put it, it's a preference for reality. Austerity was a political choice to punish the poor for the financial excesses of the banking sector.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

So you prefer jfman's view of the world?

Actually there are many things l disagree with jfman over but thats utterly irrelevent as it was a nice try at your usual deflection tactics but you ain't going to get away that easy OB as we the undecided voters have every right to know each of the major parties spending figures and as such the Conservatives as witnessed this morning on TV have refused to come out with theirs.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by denphone

Actually there are many things l disagree with jfman over but thats utterly irrelevent as it was a nice try at your usual deflection tactics but you ain't going to get away that easy OB as we the undecided voters have every right to know each of the major parties spending figures and as such the Conservatives as witnessed this morning on TV have refused to come out with theirs.

Marxism
anti-Semitism
Money printing machine
The IRA

All absolute hyperbolic nonsense to deflect from 10 years of failure from the Tories. The Tories know that in 2017 the Labour message offered people a compelling alternative vision from the absolute misery that the Conservatives are blighting many of our communities with, one generation on from their hero Margaret Thatcher doing the same to those communities. We're the fifth richest economy in the world with increasing inequality and no plan to resolve it because frankly those most affected aren't on the radar of your Moggs of this world.

The drum of nationalism will only take you so far. You have to tell people how you are going to make their lives better. A message absolutely absent from the Tories.

[Hom3r]

Hopefully the Liebour party will be dead a buired on the 13th of December, what a great birthday pressie that would be.

Along with the Unliberbral Dumbercrates, who think it democrating to ingore 17.8m.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Carth

Lots of new 'starter homes'* being built around here by companies hand in hand with the local housing mob, (which used to be the council and now has another name, so costs, responsibility and accountability are lost somewhere in the usual goalpost moving thing), and any small plot of unused land is fair game.

Actually there are a great number of pubs and social clubs that have closed due to - well that's another argument - and have been demolished to enable 'affordable'* housing to be built in their place.

* small boxy type things equivalent to 2 storey rabbit hutches, complete with parking space for a fiat 500 and 1.5m square garden

Originally Posted by jfman

That wasn't the Government commitment, was it?

All I see are houses being built, up to you to decide who's idea it was and which council (part of government surely) gave planning permission

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Carth

All I see are houses being built, up to you to decide who's idea it was and which council (part of government surely) gave planning permission

Houses being built by the commercial sector. That's seperate from the Conservative failed manifesto commitment.

I see plenty of homes being built too at ten times the average salary in the local area.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by jfman

Houses being built by the commercial sector. That's seperate from the Conservative failed manifesto commitment.

I see plenty of homes being built too at ten times the average salary in the local area.

aah sorry, I didn't realise you meant Council Houses

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Carth

aah sorry, I didn't realise you meant Council Houses

I didn't - there's no need to be obtuse, ignorant nor inflammatory with your comments. You know fine well the manifesto commitment to which I refer, and that the Conservative government drastically failed.

Given how 'freedom of movement' is derided because of our limited resources on an island you'd think the inability of a government to build 200 000 homes promised would be noteworthy. However, apparently not.

Reading the last couple of pages in this thread, it really brought to mind part of the sermon at today’s Remembrance Service at my local church.

"It’s good to disagree, challenge, argue, and if necessary, fight what what you believe is right, but when you demonise and hate your opposition, you are on the road to becoming as bad as those you oppose who use those tactics".

People, of course, are free to disagree...