Brexit (Old)

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=1andrew1;35967537]I have read your post and duly responded.

No you haven’t, just answer my point legitimate points

I am not a lawyer and from the sounds of things, neither are you. But to help you understand where I'm coming from, if civil servants are preparing for a second vote then it's a possibility. Therefore their legal advisers must believe it is lawful or has a possibility of being lawful.
Whether you are indifferent, in favour or opposed to a second vote, the actions of the civil service cannot be disregarded.

But you seem to be ignoring the very real fact that exiting the European Union is enshrined in law. It will happen and cannot be stopped unless a law is passed to do so.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Nope. This is a side show any way so we’ll end it here.

The fact that 10 MP's from NI who were bribed £1+ Billion to help Mrs May and who are shackling her ability to negotiate with the EU are a "side show"?

*drops microphone*

---------- Post added at 23:02 ---------- Previous post was at 23:01 ----------

[QUOTE=Pierre;35967550]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I have read your post and duly responded.

No you haven’t, just answer my point legitimate points





But you seem to be ignoring the very real fact that exiting the European Union is enshrined in law. It will happen and cannot be stopped unless a law is passed to do so.

There is a clue here somewhere

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Bad laws can be repealed.

Absolutely, and this will need to be put before parliament and voted on before March next year.

Otherwise we’re out.

I don’t see a lot of a action about this? If we need to to stop Brexit now politicians come do a propose a law to stop it, and vote on it, and implement it.........a bit quiet though isn’t it?

---------- Post added at 23:08 ---------- Previous post was at 23:05 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

The fact that 10 MP's from NI who were bribed £1+ Billion to help Mrs May and who are shackling her ability to negotiate with the EU are a "side show"?

*drops microphone*[COLOR="Silver"] X

irrelevant.

There is a clue here somewhere

Within five months......unicorn country.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Have IQ’s suddenly dropped on this forum?

A second referendum, which won’t happen but if it did, would have to take place before March next year. Also a bill would have to passed in parliament to repeal the withdrawal bill. Or at least to say if the country voted to remain to repeal the withdrawl bill.

I don’t see that happening in 5 months.

Therefore we will leave in March with, or without, a deal. Any second referendum would have to take place when we’re outside of the EU, which would mean having to negotiate re-entering the EU. Which would mean joining the single currency and a shed load of other things we opted out of when we were members.

We are leaving in March 2019. There is nothing that can be done to stop it. It would be unlawful.

Failure to grasp this concept is mind blowing.

I don't think this is one of the bigger issues facing a second referendum. As you've said elsewhere the law could be changed and the EU is hardly new to fudging things if they want to do so. The referendum would probably require a delay to Article 50 as a prerequisite but I think they would get it. We would also need our Parliament to change the law but that would be easy, you don't need a complicated bill. Just a few lines revoking the previous one. Parliament can work super quick if it needs too.

The most likely second referendum scenario is that May's Brexit deal is voted down in Parliament and now we have No Deal as the default prospect. Then somehow (this is the most unlikely part) the government decides that this 'isn't what people voted for' and puts the question out to the country. In this case they ask the EU for a delay and the EU grants it on the condition that this is not a delay to reopen the deal talks but to decide if we're staying or leaving without any deal. I suspect the EU would like that scenario.

The bigger problems I see with a referendum are: 1) Who actually calls it and why? and 2) If Remain were to win then what? Huge problems unless it was an overwhelming victory.

---------- Post added at 23:15 ---------- Previous post was at 23:11 ----------

Originally Posted by djfunkdup

+1 .. They should be put in prison for being a threat to our democracy ..

Prisons are already overcrowded. You'll need quite a lot of new prisons tbh.

Originally Posted by ianch99

Yet again, you mislead. There was no majority for Brexit .. not in the country, not even in the electorate.

Please stick to the facts .. keep the debate honest.

You don't know the meaning of the word honest.

Because all you said above is nonsensical - two parties in last years snap election had manifesto's on respecting the leaving decision, they obtained the largest vote share, thus, what you say about the electorate is dishonest.

One party stood on a platform to hold another vote - they gained very little seats, the UK does not want another vote, that was very clear in 2017.

The majority of the people who voted in the referendum voted for Brexit - therefore we are leaving the EU, you need to bring yourself back down from the losers march on Saturday, whatever wishful spiritual energy you picked up on Saturday, with the gang of democracy abusers, is short lived because we will still be leaving the EU.

There will be no second referendum, because the country does not want it, that much is still very apparent!

---------- Post added at 01:09 ---------- Previous post was at 00:45 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

The bigger problems I see with a referendum are: 1) Who actually calls it and why? and 2) If Remain were to win then what? Huge problems unless it was an overwhelming victory.

We keep going - Best of 3, may be 5?

Then we can watch selfishness destroy democracy in this country, because the losing side will keep insisting on another vote...

[Sephiroth]

Two points (one of them again):

1/
What's in the 95%? Anyone know?

2/
If we hold a new referendum and Remain wins, the undemocratic awful hegemonist EU will remove all our rebates and so on for withdrawal of Article 50 to be allowed from their side. They can do that because Article 50 has never before been invoked.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

[COLOR="Blue"]Two points (one of them again):

1/
What's in the 95%? Anyone know?

I suspect a lot of it is boilerplate stuff that's relatively uncontroversial. Keeping the open skies agreement, nuclear material agreements, how meets are scheduled between the UK and the EU blah blah blah.

If we hold a new referendum and Remain wins, the undemocratic awful hegemonist EU will remove all our rebates and so on for withdrawal of Article 50 to be allowed from their side. They can do that because Article 50 has never before been invoked.

[/QUOTE]

If this were to happen we could have to clarify with the EU that we can revoke Article 50 (without looking at legal options) if so we would also have to ensure we maintain membership on the current terms. Any refusal to do that would kill Remain's chances stone-dead.

[heero_yuy]

Quote from Damien:


If this were to happen we could have to clarify with the EU that we can revoke Article 50 (without looking at legal options) if so we would also have to ensure we maintain membership on the current terms. Any refusal to do that would kill Remain's chances stone-dead.

There is no way that the EU would allow us to keep our rebate and opt outs. We are to be punished for even thinking of leaving. That means an extra £4bn a year and having to dump the pound for the Euro. That would be just the beginning of the botty spanking.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Mick

You don't know the meaning of the word honest.

Because all you said above is nonsensical - two parties in last years snap election had manifesto's on respecting the leaving decision, they obtained the largest vote share, thus, what you say about the electorate is dishonest.

One party stood on a platform to hold another vote - they gained very little seats, the UK does not want another vote, that was very clear in 2017.

The majority of the people who voted in the referendum voted for Brexit - therefore we are leaving the EU, you need to bring yourself back down from the losers march on Saturday, whatever wishful spiritual energy you picked up on Saturday, with the gang of democracy abusers, is short lived because we will still be leaving the EU.

There will be no second referendum, because the country does not want it, that much is still very apparent!

---------- Post added at 01:09 ---------- Previous post was at 00:45 ----------



We keep going - Best of 3, may be 5?

Then we can watch selfishness destroy democracy in this country, because the losing side will keep insisting on another vote...

Debate by insult, nice ... but you have form here so no surprise.

So you think I am a liar but you mistake me for the Leave campaign leaders. These are the Liars dragging this country into the abyss.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by ianch99

10,000 signatures in 2 months. Not bad. It may reach 30,000 by the time it is removed ..

Over 14,000 now the momentum is gathering.


over 15,000 now


over 16,000 now

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

There is no way that the EU would allow us to keep our rebate and opt outs. We are to be punished for even thinking of leaving. That means an extra £4bn a year and having to dump the pound for the Euro. That would be just the beginning of the botty spanking.

That's just speculation though. The other side is that the same factors that gave us the rebate are in play. We're one of the major powers in the bloc and they'll want our budget contributions. If they were offered the chance for this whole thing to end then I think they'll probably just go 'sod it' and revoke Article 50 and move on. The only concession I would expect them to require of us would be some mechanism by which we don't try to leave for another 10 or so years.

Also the rebate is more at risk than joining the Euro. They probably don't want us in there with the risk of us trying to change/screw it all up. The Euro has given them enough of a headache for the last decade without now having to add one of the major European economies to it.

[papa smurf]

'Democratic arithmetic'


Raab REJECTS second Brexit vote - 'Protest can't trump referendum'



Ah well never mind it was a lovely day and the buss was free.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10...ic-Raab-latest

Originally Posted by ianch99

Debate by insult, nice ... but you have form here so no surprise.

There was no insult, just facts. So get a bloody grip.

Originally Posted by ianch99

So you think I am a liar but you mistake me for the Leave campaign leaders. These are the Liars dragging this country into the abyss.

Total rubbish - it's the same crap said for years now, with talk of recessions right after a leave result, hundreds of thousands of job losses also, a emergency budget, tax rises. ALL turned out to be project fear, we do not need to be in a con job corrupted union to do our own trade deals.

There was plenty of bullshitters in either campaigns, but again from you, it's one sided rubbish.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Yet again, you mislead. There was no majority for Brexit .. not in the country, not even in the electorate.

Please stick to the facts .. keep the debate honest.

What are you on about? Are you trying to draw a distinction between the proportion of the electorate that voted and the proportion that did not?

It is you who needs to be honest. The fact is, people were asked whether they wanted to leave or to stay. The majority who voted said they wanted to leave. It was made clear from the beginning that the decision of the electorate would be final.

That is precisely what is happening and remainers need to swallow that.

And what Mick said about there being very little support for your view at the last General Election is also true.

Please, stop daydreaming and get real, this nonsense has gone on long enough.

---------- Post added at 10:38 ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Two points (one of them again):

1/
What's in the 95%? Anyone know?

2/
If we hold a new referendum and Remain wins, the undemocratic awful hegemonist EU will remove all our rebates and so on for withdrawal of Article 50 to be allowed from their side. They can do that because Article 50 has never before been invoked.

Have you not been following the news, Seph?

End to free movement, the price of leaving, ECJ jurisdiction ending, all that stuff.

The finer details will be presented when the EU signs up to the deal. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, and remember, the backstop was accepted by us earlier and now we've gone back to it.

So just be a little more patient, and all will be revealed. Not long to go now.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

What are you on about? Are you trying to draw a distinction between the proportion of the electorate that voted and the proportion that did not?

It is you who needs to be honest. The fact is, people were asked whether they wanted to leave or to stay. The majority who voted said they wanted to leave. It was made clear from the beginning that the decision of the electorate would be final.

That is precisely what is happening and remainers need to swallow that.

And what Mick said about there being very little support for your view at the last General Election is also true.

Please, stop daydreaming and get real, this nonsense has gone on long enough.

---------- Post added at 10:38 ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 ----------



Have you not been following the news, Seph?

End to free movement, the price of leaving, ECJ jurisdiction ending, all that stuff.

The finer details will be presented when the EU signs up to the deal. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, and remember, the backstop was accepted by us earlier and now we've gone back to it.

So just be a little more patient, and all will be revealed. Not long to go now.

Do you write TMs speeches OB ?

Think you'll find we've many years of never ending 'transition' ahead.