08-05-2019, 12:17
|
#16
|
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,128
|
Re: 20mph in Wales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
[/B]
The reason given by the council for making my street a 20 mph zone was children play on the road they don't if they want to stay alive.
|
Heartwarming and compassionate, as always.
That's the problem with kids - they're kids, and often act without thinking (no matter how many times we tell them). The latest figures show that at 20mph, there is a 1.5% (1 in 66ish) chance of being fatally injured - at 30mph it's 8% (1 in 12ish); so driving 10mph faster increases the chance of a fatality over 5 times.
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
|
|
|
08-05-2019, 12:26
|
#17
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB 350Mb,
V6 STB
Posts: 7,865
|
Re: 20mph in Wales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Heartwarming and compassionate, as always.
That's the problem with kids - they're kids, and often act without thinking (no matter how many times we tell them). The latest figures show that at 20mph, there is a 1.5% (1 in 66ish) chance of being fatally injured - at 30mph it's 8% (1 in 12ish); so driving 10mph faster increases the chance of a fatality over 5 times.
|
Why should they be playing in the middle of a through road? What the odds of being fatally injured, if you're not in the middle of the road when you're not supposed to be? IIRC With the very first pedestrian fatality from a car, the vehicle was only travelling at 4mph. If you step right out in front of a car, speed isn't a factor.
Link
Quote:
Reducing the speed limit to 20mph has caused a rise in death and serious injuries, a council has admitted, but is refusing to reverse the scheme because it will cost too much. Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the 13 new speed zones just 12 months ago.
But one year on, a report has found that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones.
The review of the traffic control measures warns that this is a problem nationally, adding: "There is no simple explanation for this adverse trend but it could be that local people perceive the area to be safer due to the presence of the 20mph restrictions and thus are less diligent when walking and crossing roads, cycling or otherwise travelling."
...
This is not the first warning that 20mph areas are more dangerous. In 2010 the Department for Transport reviewed the scheme in Portsmouth, one of the first areas to adopt it, and found that number of people killed or seriously injured on affected roads actually went up, not down, after the limit was lowered.
|
Last edited by nomadking; 08-05-2019 at 12:30.
|
|
|
08-05-2019, 12:43
|
#18
|
cf.geek
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 956
|
Re: 20mph in Wales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
Why should they be playing in the middle of a through road? What the odds of being fatally injured, if you're not in the middle of the road when you're not supposed to be? IIRC With the very first pedestrian fatality from a car, the vehicle was only travelling at 4mph. If you step right out in front of a car, speed isn't a factor.
Link
|
Was the speed a factor in why the people died or got seriously injured? For example, did they die because the car was going 20mph instead of they would have survived if the car was going 30mph? Or is it because people have the attitude of blame everyone else instead of being at fault themselves? The article you quoted says "
"There is no simple explanation for this adverse trend but it could be that local people perceive the area to be safer due to the presence of the 20mph restrictions and thus are less diligent when walking and crossing roads, cycling or otherwise travelling."
Which could indicate that the reducing the speed limit didn't actually do anything other than people blaming it for something it hasn't done, they've done it.
|
|
|
08-05-2019, 13:11
|
#19
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB 350Mb,
V6 STB
Posts: 7,865
|
Re: 20mph in Wales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythica
Was the speed a factor in why the people died or got seriously injured? For example, did they die because the car was going 20mph instead of they would have survived if the car was going 30mph? Or is it because people have the attitude of blame everyone else instead of being at fault themselves? The article you quoted says "
"There is no simple explanation for this adverse trend but it could be that local people perceive the area to be safer due to the presence of the 20mph restrictions and thus are less diligent when walking and crossing roads, cycling or otherwise travelling."
Which could indicate that the reducing the speed limit didn't actually do anything other than people blaming it for something it hasn't done, they've done it.
|
As the quote says "could be". It's mere speculation and the usual of trying to come up with feeble excuses. Are we expected to believe that people consciously think to themselves, "oh it's 20mph, so we'll take less care"?
Quote:
Despite evidence that 20mph speed limits can lead to small reductions in vehicle speed, a 2017 survey by
Brake and Churchill Car Insurance of 2,000 UK drivers revealed that more than half (52%) of drivers admit to
driving at 25mph or faster in a 20mph speed limit, and 26% admitted to speeding in 20mph limits once a week
or more.
|
|
|
|
08-05-2019, 13:14
|
#20
|
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,128
|
Re: 20mph in Wales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
Why should they be playing in the middle of a through road? What the odds of being fatally injured, if you're not in the middle of the road when you're not supposed to be? IIRC With the very first pedestrian fatality from a car, the vehicle was only travelling at 4mph. If you step right out in front of a car, speed isn't a factor.
Link
|
They don’t just play, they often run after things, or step out from behind parked cars, so if the cars are travelling slower, they have a great chance of surviving.
The Council’s findings about the increase in accidents were challenged.
http://roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/stak...-20mph-scheme/
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
|
|
|
08-05-2019, 13:27
|
#21
|
cf.geek
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 956
|
Re: 20mph in Wales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
As the quote says "could be". It's mere speculation and the usual of trying to come up with feeble excuses. Are we expected to believe that people consciously think to themselves, "oh it's 20mph, so we'll take less care"?
|
I wouldn't say it's mere speculation. What's the other option? Reducing speed by 10mph from 30mph to 20mph makes more people die or get seriously injured? How on earth does that make any sense. I just see people trying to blame something for their (others) mistakes.
So again you link to something that others are doing on purpose which is skewing the results. If people aren't doing the speed limit, then how can you blame deaths or serious injuries on the limit reduction. Again it's people not taking responsibility for their actions that are causing some of these deaths or serious injuries.
|
|
|
08-05-2019, 13:38
|
#22
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB 350Mb,
V6 STB
Posts: 7,865
|
Re: 20mph in Wales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
They don’t just play, they often run after things, or step out from behind parked cars, so if the cars are travelling slower, they have a great chance of surviving.
The Council’s findings about the increase in accidents were challenged.
http://roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/stak...-20mph-scheme/
|
The post you were replying to, specifically said "playing". Similar adverse findings were made in other areas.
There needs to be a distinction of where the collision takes place. Does the vehicle come off the road and onto the pavement? Is it somebody stepping off into the road, right into the path of a vehicle? Is it somebody crossing the road and misjudging the speed of the approaching vehicle? Vehicle jumping red lights at a pedestrian crossing? It is important to identify which scenario in order to establish where a reduction in speed limit would have any effect.
|
|
|
08-05-2019, 13:56
|
#23
|
cf.geek
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 956
|
Re: 20mph in Wales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
The post you were replying to, specifically said "playing". Similar adverse findings were made in other areas.
There needs to be a distinction of where the collision takes place. Does the vehicle come off the road and onto the pavement? Is it somebody stepping off into the road, right into the path of a vehicle? Is it somebody crossing the road and misjudging the speed of the approaching vehicle? Vehicle jumping red lights at a pedestrian crossing? It is important to identify which scenario in order to establish where a reduction in speed limit would have any effect.
|
That's all true. What wont happen though is a reduction of speed limit causing more deaths. You are slowing people down, not speeding them up.
|
|
|
08-05-2019, 14:06
|
#24
|
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,128
|
Re: 20mph in Wales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
The post you were replying to, specifically said "playing". Similar adverse findings were made in other areas.
There needs to be a distinction of where the collision takes place. Does the vehicle come off the road and onto the pavement? Is it somebody stepping off into the road, right into the path of a vehicle? Is it somebody crossing the road and misjudging the speed of the approaching vehicle? Vehicle jumping red lights at a pedestrian crossing? It is important to identify which scenario in order to establish where a reduction in speed limit would have any effect.
|
Who gives a toss? If they hit a child at 30mph, there is a five times greater chance of a fatality than if they hit it at 20mph.
All your casuistry, quibbling, and Gish-galloping doesn’t change those basic facts.
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
|
|
|
08-05-2019, 14:42
|
#25
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
|
Re: 20mph in Wales.
Maybe if Councils stopped selling off every bit of grass they own, kids would have somewhere safer to play instead of a road
|
|
|
08-05-2019, 14:49
|
#26
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kairdiff-by-the-sea
Age: 68
Services: TVXL BBXL Superhub 2ac (wired) 1Tb Tivo
Posts: 9,815
|
Re: 20mph in Wales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
Maybe if Councils stopped selling off every bit of grass they own, kids would have somewhere safer to play instead of a road
|
But, around here at least, I hardly ever see kids out playing. But what I do see are kids riding bicycles with no respect to the law, the highway code, their own safety, or the safety of others. Then they get hold of motorbikes and cars and act the same way!
|
|
|
08-05-2019, 15:27
|
#27
|
Still alive and fighting
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 3 360 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 56,314
|
Re: 20mph in Wales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
Maybe if Councils stopped selling off every bit of grass they own, kids would have somewhere safer to play instead of a road
|
+1
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
|
|
|
08-05-2019, 15:35
|
#28
|
vox populi vox dei
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,739
|
Re: 20mph in Wales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
Maybe if Councils stopped selling off every bit of grass they own, kids would have somewhere safer to play instead of a road
|
There's a park around the corner but the kids won't go there
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
|
|
|
08-05-2019, 15:54
|
#29
|
Inactive
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London way
Age: 48
Services: Sarcasm
Posts: 8,376
|
Re: 20mph in Wales.
j/k
|
|
|
08-05-2019, 17:38
|
#30
|
The Invisible Woman
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: between Portsmouth and Southampton.
Age: 71
Services: VM XL TV,50 MB VM BB,VM landline, Tivo
Posts: 40,163
|
Re: 20mph in Wales.
I have no issues with a 20 MPH limit around schools and by play areas myself. However I do get pissed off by anyone who drives up my road over 30..
The real issue is however who the hell is going to police a generalised 20 MPH? Resources are already squeezed for the police and local councils.
__________________
Hell is empty and all the devils are here. Shakespeare..
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:44.
|