Child grooming gang found guilty - Page 26

**Damien** · 10-05-2013, 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will21st

there are many reasons for child abuse,however Islam condones that kind of behaviour and indeed sexually inappropriate behaviour towards non-muslim women,be they teenagers or older...

I don't think it does condone it.

Russ · 10-05-2013, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

I can't help but get the feeling that it is easier to do so within a group of Muslims, than a group of attendees at a paedophile convention(if one took place).

Just pointing out again that there's nothing to suggest that Islam played a factor in many (any?) of these cases.

nomadking · 10-05-2013, 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Just pointing out again that there's nothing to suggest that Islam played a factor in many (any?) of these cases.

If it's not Islam that is linking the people in these Muslim gangs, what is it?

Russ · 10-05-2013, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

If it's not Islam that is linking the people in these Muslim gangs, what is it?

I don't think I've referred to them as 'Muslim' gangs, just 'Asian' gangs. For example there are many white Muslims but none seem to be in these gangs.

Will21st · 10-05-2013, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I strongly disagree that religion plays a part in this. It may be that some of the attackers are Muslim but I suspect they would carry out the abuse/attacks even if they were not.

Really,you strongly disagree? Why? What has made you come to that conclusion?

nomadking · 10-05-2013, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I don't think I've referred to them as 'Muslim' gangs, just 'Asian' gangs. For example there are many white Muslims but none seem to be in these gangs.

White Muslims may be amongst the 'customers'. or it may be that they are not viewed as being as trustworthy to be brought into the 'secret', because they are seen as newcomers, and perhaps not full and true Muslims.

Will21st · 10-05-2013, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't think it does condone it.

Read up on Islam and the way non-believers are depicted in the Qur'an.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Just pointing out again that there's nothing to suggest that Islam played a factor in many (any?) of these cases.

so what else is the factor,the ties that bind? Something to do with male Asian culture?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

If it's not Islam that is linking the people in these Muslim gangs, what is it?

exactly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I don't think I've referred to them as 'Muslim' gangs, just 'Asian' gangs. For example there are many white Muslims but none seem to be in these gangs.

Yes,but those white Muslims are converts and weren't raised in that same way the non-whites were,they weren't as indoctrinated into believing white,unmarried women are fair game.Maybe you got to give them some more time just yet.

Russ · 10-05-2013, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will21st

Really,you strongly disagree? Why? What has made you come to that conclusion?

I lived around many Muslims for nearly 3 years. Nothing about their behaviour or manner suggests they would be like these offenders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will21st

Read up on Islam and the way non-believers are depicted in the Qur'an.

Without dragging this OT too much just because someone is Muslim/Christian/Jewish/whatever does not mean they follow their holy teachings word for word.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will21st

so what else is the factor,the ties that bind? Something to do with male Asian culture?

That is what I have been led to believe.

**Damien** · 10-05-2013, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will21st

Read up on Islam and the way non-believers are depicted in the Qur'an.

The bible has plenty of horrible stuff in it as well and I could say Christianity condones it by pointing to selectively chosen passages and the child abuse scandal in the Catholic Church. That wouldn't mean Christians condone child abuse nor would it mean it's a problem 'amongst Christians' or the Western world which predominantly follows Christianity.

What made Catholics Priests abuse children? It wasn't their race and it wasn't their religion.

Russ · 10-05-2013, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

What made Catholics Priests abuse children? It wasn't their race and it wasn't their religion.

nomadking · 10-05-2013, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

What made Catholics Priests abuse children? It wasn't their race and it wasn't their religion.

I'm not sure 'made' is the right word. It seems to be related to their situation as being celibate. Did/does the priesthood attract men that aren't attracted to women? Even then, did they get together as a group and plan to start acting in that way, or did they tend to act initially as individuals and then possibly happen to come across others acting in the same way? It is highly unlikely that a Catholic Priest could have simply approached another priest at random.

thenry · 10-05-2013, 15:52

Don't scapegoat a religion for crimes that don't relate to it. Its grounds you really don't want to be walking on for obvious reasons of taking your eye off the ball. Religions such as Islam has a lot of nasty stuff in it as Damien pointed out, things which need to be kept an eye on but in no way can it be at fault for these sorts of crime. Lets be clear in Islam the biggest ruling, one of the best known rules is marriage before sex. You cannot be anymore clearer on that.

TheDaddy · 10-05-2013, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

What made Catholics Priests abuse children? It wasn't their race and it wasn't their religion.

Err because their perverts looking for and gaining easy access to children, if they hadn't become priests they'd have been scout leaders or youth workers. It's not religious but cultural mainly imo, you only have to look at the stats in Pakistan where a rape and gang rapes happen every few minutes IIRC however I believe the religious laws out their aid the accused far more than the victim.

**Damien** · 10-05-2013, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Err because their perverts looking for and gaining easy access to children, if they hadn't become priests they'd have been scout leaders or youth workers. It's not religious but cultural mainly imo, you only have to look at the stats in Pakistan where a rape and gang rapes happen every few minutes IIRC however I believe the religious laws out their aid the accused far more than the victim.

I think you're right on the Priests. Some people are child abusers and I don't think it's based on their religion or their culture.

So why are there Asian gangs? I don't think it's because Asians are more likely to do it but something in their communities means that the gangs are a more common way it happens whereas in white communities (how weird does that phrase sound!

) the stories are usually of individuals in isolation or groups via the Internet. Of course you do hear News stories of groups, like those people are the nursery a while back, so maybe it's more complicated.

spreadsheet · 10-05-2013, 19:57

I wonder how 'level headed' the press would be about a bunch of white men who did the same thing to Asian girls?