UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Hugh has been very lenient, I wont be.

Anyone else ignoring staff directives will be suspended from the site for a period of days.

[nomadking]

In the name of protecting the UK internal market, we will have to ban through traffic to/from Ireland, wherever the backstop related border is to be set. Currently goods destined for Ireland or from Ireland to France and beyond, pass through the UK. Those goods may be EU certified, but they won't be UK certified. In order to protect the UK internal market as agreed in the Political Declaration, what are the EU going to do? The single/internal market issues work both ways.
Political Declaration.

17.
...
It should facilitate trade and investment between the Parties to the
extent possible, while respecting the integrity of the Union's Single Market
and the Customs Union as well as the United Kingdom's internal market,
and recognising the development of an independent trade policy by
the United Kingdom beyond this economic partnership.

[jfman]

EU goods transiting the UK don’t threaten the UK single market. Essentially you are proposing to blockade another country as a result of our poor planning.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jfman

EU goods transiting the UK don’t threaten the UK single market. Essentially you are proposing to blockade another country as a result of our poor planning.

Just looks like another way that hard-working Brits could lose their jobs through no fault of their own. Hope this gets sorted.

[Sephiroth]

As I see it, we have several public takes on Brexit negotiations:

1 Varadkar - keen to do a deal in New York next week;
2 Coveney - we’re miles away from a deal;
3 Juncker - a deal could be done by 31-Aug;
4 Barclay - we share the same ideals and objectives;
5 Barnier - neither optimistic nor pessimistic;
6 Finnish bloke - final proposals required by 30-Sep;
7 Verhofstat - the usual claptrap.

Looks bad for a deal.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

As I see it, we have several public takes on Brexit negotiations:

1 Varadkar - keen to do a deal in New York next week;
2 Coveney - we’re miles away from a deal;
3 Juncker - a deal could be done by 31-Aug;
4 Barclay - we share the same ideals and objectives;
5 Barnier - neither optimistic nor pessimistic;
6 Finnish bloke - final proposals required by 30-Sep;
7 Verhofstat - the usual claptrap.

Looks bad for a deal.

Don't be daft, the Government aren't allowed to leave with no deal, I think it's the law or summat, therefore the EU will have to give us one . . won't they?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

EU goods transiting the UK don’t threaten the UK single market. Essentially you are proposing to blockade another country as a result of our poor planning.

How do we know they are just transiting? Just as the EU complains that they wouldn't know what happens to goods arriving in NI from the rest of the UK or from abroad. Goods would end up in the UK, either from Ireland or from France that were not UK compliant and without UK tariffs applied because they were just passing through. If the NI related issues as the EU keeps claiming, are up to the UK to resolve, then these issues are up to the EU to resolve. Still means 2 sets of border/customs checks, even if the "border" is in the Irish Sea, as the Irish seem to be aiming for.

Ireland could always bypass the UK by moving everything via Cherbourg. These issues would also apply to an independent Scotland or Wales, regardless of whether they were in or out of the EU. It is a geographical thing.

If only there was a pre-existing scheme to cope with all this?
Perhaps they could call it the Common Transit Scheme?
Common Transit Scheme.

The Common Transit Convention is used for the movement of goods between or through common transit countries.
The common transit countries are:

• EU member states
• Iceland
• Norway
• Liechtenstein
• Switzerland
• Turkey
• North Macedonia
• Serbia

By using the Common Transit Convention you:

• can move your goods quicker because customs declarations are not required at each border crossing
• only pay customs duties when the goods reach their final destination
• can complete some customs procedures away from the border

As long as the UK is added to that list in it's own right, then backstop issues SOLVED. That's assuming the issues that the EU(ie Ireland) is claiming are there, are the true ones.

[Paddy1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

As long as the UK is added to that list in it's own right, then backstop issues SOLVED. That's assuming the issues that the EU(ie Ireland) is claiming are there, are the true ones.

So you're not planning on shipping anything TO the EU then?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Paddy1

So you're not planning on shipping anything TO the EU then?

It's about where the goods are alleged to be finally going to. If goods go from UK to France, it's a standard cross border thing. If goods leave Ireland, arrive in the UK, but are said to be going on to France, what happens? The UK bans the goods from entry because they do not comply with UK rules? If they are allowed in, they are subject to UK applied tariffs, but what happens in France? Non-UK compliant & tariffed goods would be in the UK. That is the same as what the EU is complaining about(non-EU compliant & tariffed goods being in the EU).

The EU is effectively insisting that the rest of the UK is blocked from sending goods to NI, as they wouldn't be EU compliant. Otherwise as, the EU constantly complains, non-EU compliant goods could end up in Ireland or in the NI-Irish Republic customs zone.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

How do we know they are just transiting? Just as the EU complains that they wouldn't know what happens to goods arriving in NI from the rest of the UK or from abroad. Goods would end up in the UK, either from Ireland or from France that were not UK compliant and without UK tariffs applied because they were just passing through. If the NI related issues as the EU keeps claiming, are up to the UK to resolve, then these issues are up to the EU to resolve. Still means 2 sets of border/customs checks, even if the "border" is in the Irish Sea, as the Irish seem to be aiming for.

Ireland could always bypass the UK by moving everything via Cherbourg. These issues would also apply to an independent Scotland or Wales, regardless of whether they were in or out of the EU. It is a geographical thing.

If only there was a pre-existing scheme to cope with all this?
Perhaps they could call it the Common Transit Scheme?
Common Transit Scheme.
As long as the UK is added to that list in it's own right, then backstop issues SOLVED. That's assuming the issues that the EU(ie Ireland) is claiming are there, are the true ones.

Except the concern of the EU isn’t transit. It’s essentially smuggling across an “open” border.

I think the best way for you to visualise it is EU citizens freely walking across the border and working in the UK, despite not having the right to do so. Would you be happy for uncontrolled migration into the UK over an open border?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

Except the concern of the EU isn’t transit. It’s essentially smuggling across an “open” border.

I think the best way for you to visualise it is EU citizens freely walking across the border and working in the UK, despite not having the right to do so. Would you be happy for uncontrolled migration into the UK over an open border?

The backstop isn't remotely connected to movement of people. By the same token, goods could be shipped into the UK from the EU, but not go on to another EU country. That would break the UK internal market, in the SAME way as the EU complains the EU single market could be broken.
Link

And many trade experts suggest the only way to prevent those checks at the Irish border would be for the two parts of the island to have the same standards.
In effect, that would mean Northern Ireland would have to continue to follow EU standards.
And that would mean some food products coming from elsewhere in the UK would be subject to new checks and controls at Northern Ireland ports.

Link

The Irish Freight Transport Association estimates that the final destination of roughly 60% of the 475,925 freight containers shipped to Britain is Britain itself.
That means the other 40% - roughly 190,000 per year - is destined for elsewhere in the EU, transiting across Britain via ports such as Dover or Hull, or via the Channel Tunnel.
No-one knows the exact number, although Ireland's Department of Transport has commissioned in-depth research that should be released shortly.
But one thing is clear: any kind of breakdown or problem posed by the failure to reach a Brexit agreement could have a huge impact, not just on Ireland's trade with the UK, but also on Ireland's trade with the rest of the EU.

That's a problem for the EU to find a solution for.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The backstop isn't remotely connected to movement of people. By the same token, goods could be shipped into the UK from the EU, but not go on to another EU country. That would break the UK internal market, in the SAME way as the EU complains the EU single market could be broken.
Link

Link
That's a problem for the EU to find a solution for.

It’s called an analogy. I framed it in terms easier for you to understand.

You’ve denoted a risk there that could be picked up by border checks - which is why the backstop is necessary to prevent a hard border. That’s literally the whole point.

The UK could, for example, conduct random exit checks.

That’s not the same as an open border leaking products into the EU.

[Sephiroth]

The backstop in its current form is there to protect Ireland's financial interests and to punish the UK.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The backstop in its current form is there to protect Ireland's financial interests and to punish the UK.

It’s to protect the Single Market. As I’ve said before we wouldn’t accept uncontrolled migration over an open border why would the EU accept an uncontrolled flood of goods?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s called an analogy. I framed it in terms easier for you to understand.

You’ve denoted a risk there that could be picked up by border checks - which is why the backstop is necessary to prevent a hard border. That’s literally the whole point.

The UK could, for example, conduct random exit checks.

That’s not the same as an open border leaking products into the EU.

Unless you block non-UK compliant goods coming from Ireland/France and going on to France/Ireland, you have the SIMILAR risk of leaking into the UK internal market.
Link

In Brussels and Dublin it was decided that the UK now “had to own” the border issue.
All they had extracted out of Britain so far was a line in May’s speech that there would be “no return to the borders of the past”.
“That was no good to us,” said one source. “That referenced watchtowers and guns, but this is not what the border issue was about, we were never going back there. This was about the customs union and the single market.”