Britain outside the EU

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You miss the point, Andrew. In fact, two points.

1/
The EU, perhaps only for the most part, wants to federalise. The UK people don't want that - certainly 52%. Would you have wanted to be part of a federal Europe?

2/
The whole thing is rigged for Germany. I've explained several time the way that Germany engineered the DM to Euro exchange rate. Their overarching policy is economic domination. Guess what a federal Europe dominated by Germany means? Would you have wanted that?

1/ Didn't care what the other countries may or may not have wanted to do but the UK was not on course to do this in 2015 nor did I want it to.
2/ Don't know enough about the history of this to comment. Certainly, I'm pleased we left the ERM and I've never wanted the Euro.

I see our ideal position as somewhere between a full-on member like Germany and an affiliate like Switzerland. I thank we had the balance right before but we've now gone too far in the opposite direction but in time we will become closer.

[Carth]

*in time we will become closer*

To what, the Federal German Republic and all of it's satellites?

At least the UK only has N. Ireland as a problem, I think there are a few brewing for the EU

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

1/ Didn't care what the other countries may or may not have wanted to do but the UK was not on course to do this in 2015 nor did I want it to.
2/ Don't know enough about the history of this to comment. Certainly, I'm pleased we left the ERM and I've never wanted the Euro.

I see our ideal position as somewhere between a full-on member like Germany and an affiliate like Switzerland. I thank we had the balance right before but we've now gone too far in the opposite direction but in time we will become closer.

An interesting perspective that I'd not seen from you before.
On the Euro/Germany thing, I did give a full explanation somewhere on how Germany rigged the Euro (by letting in Greece, and Portugal to depress the basket exchange value, despite their not meeting the required thresholds).

As to our ideal position, we had this in the early 1990s. It was all going swimmingly then; no WTD for a start.

My complaint, though, is now. The EU has shown itself through the EC, Macron and Merkel (and the perfidious Varadkar), to be a nasty bunch of revanchistes. However much I would have been content to remain in the EEC, now they are beyond the pale and to hell with them.

Which brings me to Ireland and a point you made in an earlier post.
The EU skilfully exploited May's weakness by shoving the entire GFA onus onto the UK - whereas the Republic had equal onus. Had we walked away, the Republic would have had to step up and the UK/Ireland could have sorted this out bilaterally. Except that their precious Internal Market would have poked its horns into this. We could have just stood back and say to Ireland "Sort it". Our entire stance was wrong, possibly blinded by the lure of a trade deal.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

1/ Didn't care what the other countries may or may not have wanted to do but the UK was not on course to do this in 2015 nor did I want it to.
2/ Don't know enough about the history of this to comment. Certainly, I'm pleased we left the ERM and I've never wanted the Euro.

I see our ideal position as somewhere between a full-on member like Germany and an affiliate like Switzerland. I thank we had the balance right before but we've now gone too far in the opposite direction but in time we will become closer.

The ERM undervalued the Deutschmark and because of the way the ERM worked, other member states were obliged to buy and sell currencies in order to keep it that way. Eventually the Euro locked in the advantage. “Oh well Germany does loads more trade with China than us so therefore the EU is great” is, frankly, an economically illiterate argument to make because it fundamentally misunderstands some of the most foundational policy objectives of the European project.

The postwar settlement was designed to enable Germany to rebuild its economy based on industry and for France to produce enough to feed both countries. That was handled initially by pooling and sharing coal and steel resources, and soon afterwards with a broader economic union drawing in neighbouring states.

Unsurprisingly, the military security of the continent was taken right out of German hands by placing it with NATO, which ought to be repeated loud and often, especially when the EU is held up as in some way responsible for preventing another European war. NATO prevented war by confiscating Germany’s guns, occupying half the country and then pointing nuclear missiles at the paranoid dictatorship that came to occupy the other half. NATO’s political and military control is entirely disconnected from the EU, which is as it should have been because the whole idea was to lock Germany out of military issues. The western allies have taken care of Germany’s security for it, and given the murderous tendencies of Stalin’s Soviet Union, doubtless saved it from being wholly occupied by the Red Army (for the avoidance of doubt on this issue, see the Berlin Blockade).

In the midst of all this, Germany has been free, in fact has been actively encouraged and enabled, to become an economic powerhouse. Whether the very measures designed to prevent it destabilising Europe ever again will in the long term actually cause destabilisation, is yet to be seen.

Astonishing that none of the usual link-sharing suspects have rushed to share this piece of #despitebrexit news this morning.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57666008

Nissan has announced a major expansion of electric vehicle production at its car plant in Sunderland which will create 1,650 new jobs.
The Japanese carmaker says it will build its new-generation all-electric model at the site.
Its partner, Envision AESC, will also build a new electric battery plant.
The new electric vehicle hub, launched with £1bn worth of investment, will also support thousands of jobs in the UK supply chain.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Chris

Astonishing that none of the usual link-sharing suspects have rushed to share this piece of #despitebrexit news this morning.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57666008

Not everybody watches the BBC and as the story is only a few hours old it has only just made it to the other news outlets. Reuters story for example is only 39 minutes old.

Nissan have also chosen to close one of its EU factories instead.

---------- Post added at 10:43 ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 ----------

Comment at The Sun:

Sunderland’s leavers never regretted their vote.

Now they are vindicated.

First, by Nissan opting to close Barcelona, not their plant.

Second, by the battery “gigafactory” it will unveil as soon as today, creating thousands of jobs.

It will be a giant leap for electric car manufacture in the UK, the first of *several we will need, and another vote of confidence in Brexit Britain.

For all the sound and fury, EU membership was nowhere near as important to our economy as the losing side made out.

[mrmistoffelees]

Great news for the Sunderland and its surrounding areas (Washington, Birtley etc.)

Hopefully this will continue in other areas of the country

Good news.

[1andrew1]

More good news. Not strictly Brexit-related but it looks like the Vauxhall plant in Ellesmere Port is safe as it will shift to electric vehicle production.
https://news.sky.com/story/vauxhalls...ction-12347390

Excellent news

[Sephiroth]

Indeed good news. I would say that notwithstanding my preference for a clean break with the EU, it is the tariff/quota free trade deal that makes this possible.

The political situation is quite interesting and highlights what's wrong with the EU as a supreme entity. Although it's likely to get sorted, the NHS App for Covid passport purposes is not accepted yet by the EU. Yet several nations within the EU do accept the App is evidence of vaccination. In other words, the EU is dysfunctional. That begs the question as to whether one federation, run entirely by Brussels and the Parliament will ever happen.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

it is the tariff/quota free trade deal that makes this possible.

Agreed, fair call. Nissan had warned that no deal = no Sunderland factory.

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Agreed, fair call. Nissan had warned that no deal = no Sunderland factory.

Does it matter why it's happening

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Itshim

Does it matter why it's happening

Yes, it does. If we don’t connect cause and effect, how will we ever learn?

[1andrew1]

Surely, the obvious solution is for the UK to agree veterinary equivalence. The US says this won't stand in the way of a trade deal.

Irish taoiseach urges No 10 to match EU generosity over NI protocol

Micheál Martin says the UK must engage with the bloc after extension of grace period for movement of chilled meats

The Irish taoiseach, Micheál Martin, has called on Downing Street to “reciprocate the generosity of spirit” shown by EU leaders on the Northern Ireland protocol after they extended the grace period allowing chilled meats to be shipped to the nation from Britain.

On Saturday, Martin said “warning each other is over” and called for engagement to find solutions through the withdrawal agreement.

It came after UK cabinet ministers ramped up pressure for concessions on the protocol by warning of disruption to peace if changes are not made.

Martin said: “I think the British government should acknowledge the approach of the EU this week in terms of the extension of the grace period and also in terms of the facilitation around the medicines issue.

“There is no question that the European Commission and the European Union leaders have demonstrated goodwill and a generosity of spirit towards the British government in resolving this issue.

“It really is time for British government to reciprocate the generosity of spirit that European leaders have shown. And also the sense of flexibility that Europe has indicated to the UK that it is willing to deploy, in respect of the workingout of issues pertaining to the protocol.

“The time for warning each other is over. It’s time for engagement, constructive engagement, with a view to reaching a resolution.”

The EU decision on chilled meats, after a request from the UK, avoids a trade dispute by delaying the ban until 30 September while efforts continue to find a lasting solution to measures which prevent a hard border in Ireland.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...er-ni-protocol