Britain outside the EU

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Other third countries have nothing to do with this. You apologists for the EU must do better, please.

We are unique in having been fully aligned with them on our departure.
Plus, the NI Protocol immensely complicates matters and requires them to be more reasonable to avoid what we all know is coming by way of sectarian violence.

Varadkar is stirring the poison pot as well. Stop defending the EU and stand up for the UK. You, Jon, and Andrew (and MrM).


---------- Post added at 17:31 ---------- Previous post was at 17:30 ----------



I nearly did.

You've proven my earlier post with this sentence.

'We are unique in having been fully aligned with them on our departure.'

Again, you seem to think we should receive special treatment because we were once members.

membership or lack thereof is the defining factor, not alignment.

[tweetiepooh]

Was thinking last night that both sides are also dealing with a global pandemic so it would be good to put aside the tantrums of details in agreements over minutia in trade (processed/chilled meats in NI) and deal with the big problem.
It really isn't likely that we will use the Irish situation as a conduit for dodgy stuff into the EU or the other way round.


Or is it more that individual countries are dealing with Covid so the EU can still focus on all the trade bits and expect the UK government to have all their focus on both.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

Was thinking last night that both sides are also dealing with a global pandemic so it would be good to put aside the tantrums of details in agreements over minutia in trade (processed/chilled meats in NI) and deal with the big problem.
It really isn't likely that we will use the Irish situation as a conduit for dodgy stuff into the EU or the other way round.


Or is it more that individual countries are dealing with Covid so the EU can still focus on all the trade bits and expect the UK government to have all their focus on both.

If the pandemic should have been prioritised above Brexit then the EU offered to extend Brexit for a year. Did you agree with a 12-month extension then?

On chilled meats, the EU granted a six-month extension until the end of this month and is likely to offer another extension. A normal solution would be veterinary equivalence but the UK has declined this solution. Hopefully something can be sorted out but trust in the UK has been weakened by threats of not honouring the agreement. Whilst the EU's not been perfect either, the UK signed up to this deal. As many said at the time, act in haste, repent at leisure.

---------- Post added at 10:12 ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

You've proven my earlier post with this sentence.

'We are unique in having been fully aligned with them on our departure.'

Again, you seem to think we should receive special treatment because we were once members.

membership or lack thereof is the defining factor, not alignment.

Agreed, seems to be a case of British exceptionalism lingering there.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

If the pandemic should have been prioritised above Brexit then the EU offered to extend Brexit for a year. Did you agree with a 12-month extension then?

On chilled meats, the EU granted a six-month extension until the end of this month and is likely to offer another extension. A normal solution would be veterinary equivalence but the UK has declined this solution. Hopefully something can be sorted out but trust in the UK has been weakened by threats of not honouring the agreement. Whilst the EU's not been perfect either, the UK signed up to this deal. As many said at the time, act in haste, repent at leisure.

---------- Post added at 10:12 ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 ----------


Agreed, seems to be a case of British exceptionalism lingering there.

Why on earth should the EU be allowed to dictate what we can and cannot move between parts of the UK. Just obscene. That is the exceptionalism. As with so many other things, it wouldn't be allowed in any other country, other than the UK.

Protecting their single market is just nonsense, especially when they insist on being able to ship freely from the EU via Ireland, thereby bypassing all the rules and regulations they expect NI to adhere to, and the UK single market which the EU agreed to recognise.
Very little was detailed in the agreement, other than on many issues that the Joint Committee would have to specify the details.

Even the EUs own rules allow the presence of non-EU regulation items in EU countries. It's only IF it becomes available on the EU market it becomes an EU issue. Countries ship items into the EU that don't meet EU regulations. When they are discovered they are removed from sale. That is a matter for the EU or whatever country.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Why on earth should the EU be allowed to dictate what we can and cannot move between parts of the UK. Just obscene. That is the exceptionalism. As with so many other things, it wouldn't be allowed in any other country, other than the UK.

Protecting their single market is just nonsense, especially when they insist on being able to ship freely from the EU via Ireland, thereby bypassing all the rules and regulations they expect NI to adhere to, and the UK single market which the EU agreed to recognise.
Very little was detailed in the agreement, other than on many issues that the Joint Committee would have to specify the details.

Even the EUs own rules allow the presence of non-EU regulation items in EU countries. It's only IF it becomes available on the EU market it becomes an EU issue. Countries ship items into the EU that don't meet EU regulations. When they are discovered they are removed from sale. That is a matter for the EU or whatever country.

It's not the EU Single Market it's the European Single Market as it also includes non-EU countries like Norway. It was your leader Boris Johnson who wanted this arrangement and not surprisingly I don't recall you criticising him or it at the time.

I'm not sure what you mean about shipping freely from the EU via Ireland as the Republic is in the EU.

Northern Ireland was flagged by many as a problem that would occur with the UK leaving the EU and the Republic remaining in it and this imperfect work-around has occurred as a consequence.

What would you pragmatically negotiate in its place?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It's not the EU Single Market it's the European Single Market as it also includes non-EU countries like Norway. It was your leader Boris Johnson who wanted this arrangement and not surprisingly I don't recall you criticising him or it at the time.

I'm not sure what you mean about shipping freely from the EU via Ireland as the Republic is in the EU.

Northern Ireland was flagged by many as a problem that would occur with the UK leaving the EU and the Republic remaining in it and this imperfect work-around has occurred as a consequence.

What would you pragmatically negotiate in its place?

Nothing needing to negotiate. Unfettered movement within the UK. What is so complicated about that?

AFFIRMING the commitment of the United Kingdom to facilitate the efficient and timely transit through its territory of goods moving from Ireland to another Member State or to a third country, and vice versa,

DETERMINED that the application of this Protocol should impact as little as possible on the everyday life of communities in both Ireland and Northern Ireland,
UNDERLINING their firm commitment to no customs and regulatory checks or controls and related physical infrastructure at the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland,
...
RECALLING that Northern Ireland is part of the customs territory of the United Kingdom and will benefit from participation in the United Kingdom's independent trade policy,
HAVING REGARD to the importance of maintaining the integral place of Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom’s internal market,
...
2. This Protocol respects the essential State functions and territorial integrity of the United Kingdom.

Under WTO rules, different customs rules between countries(eg GB and NI) means they are separate customs territories, therefore single customs territory means single set of customs rules between GB and NI.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Nothing needing to negotiate. Unfettered movement within the UK. What is so complicated about that?


...

RECALLING that Northern Ireland is part of the customs territory of the United Kingdom and will benefit from participation in the United Kingdom's independent trade policy,
HAVING REGARD to the importance of maintaining the integral place of Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom’s internal market,

So, if the above it true, why isn't Boris threatening and subsequently instigating court action against the EU? Why did he request an extension instead?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

So, if the above it true, why isn't Boris threatening and subsequently instigating court action against the EU? Why did he request an extension instead?

So what parts of the quoted sections are not true?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by nomadking

So what parts of the quoted sections are not true?

Then as i said if that's the case, why isn't the UK/Boris taking legal action against the EU ? Why have they asked for an extension?

[mrmistoffelees]

Still looking for an answer to this nomadking. Perhaps someone else could explain why we haven't taken legal action?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Still looking for an answer to this nomadking. Perhaps someone else could explain why we haven't taken legal action?

I can explain why he's not answering - he's not logged into the site

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

I can explain why he's not answering - he's not logged into the site

Ah Mr. Smurf (belated happy birthday wishes btw) perhaps you could explain as to why we're not taking the EU to court?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Ah Mr. Smurf (belated happy birthday wishes btw) perhaps you could explain as to why we're not taking the EU to court?

We are just too nice.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

We are just too nice.

Yep, that's got to be it !

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Nothing needing to negotiate. Unfettered movement within the UK. What is so complicated about that?

Under WTO rules, different customs rules between countries(eg GB and NI) means they are separate customs territories, therefore single customs territory means single set of customs rules between GB and NI.

Just goes back to the argument during the negotiations, we don't want a border in the Irish Sea, and also we're not going to impose a border on Ireland. The Irish don't want a border on Ireland so leave it up to Brussels to impose the border if they so demand.