Coronavirus

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

That’s why we need the boosters, to protect against new variants. So far, the vaccines protect against them all, but they will be modified regularly to take into account the new strains out there.

Still takes time to come up with a new vaccine and vaccinate everybody. What happens in the meantime?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Still takes time to come up with a new vaccine and vaccinate everybody. What happens in the meantime?

Well, would you mind telling me which variants are immune to the available vaccines? There is no point in worrying about something that has not happened.

We have been told that modified inoculations will be available this autumn, anyway. It takes only a few weeks to modify it as required.

[Pierre]

We should continue to live in fear. Makes perfect sense.

Mortality rate is under 50’s - 0.5 %
Mortality rate in under 40’s - 0.19%
Mortality rate in under 30’s - 0.04%
Mortality rate in under 20’s - 0.01%

And this is before the vaccine roll out got really going.

Yes, we should all live in fear.

The government and the media really have done a number on everyone.


https://www.gov.uk/government/public...england-report

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Matt Hancock confirmed that lab data showed that the vaccine was effective against the Indian variant. This was also the view of Prof Finn, who appeared on the Andrew Marr Show.

Not like you to do selective interpretation, OB.

I heard of increasing confidence. I heard nothing in absolute terms. The fact Boris took to television on Friday at 5pm makes me think that confidence isn’t that high - added to the u-turn on 12 weeks.

I think, jfman, that you should consider providing links to back up your absurd view of the world, which often appears to defy common sense. You may rubbish the links that I provide, but they add support to the arguments being made, so I would certainly take you more seriously if you did that. Which you won’t, of course…

Like it or not, this lockdown is coming to an end. So will mask wearing and social distancing on 21 June. Don’t forget, you can lock yourself away if you want to. The emphasis after June will be on personal responsibility, not government diktat.

Here’s one for the scrap heap with it going away by itself in the summer (2020).

---------- Post added at 21:12 ---------- Previous post was at 21:01 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

“Diet OB” extremely offensive, but funny, I’ll give you that.

I think, and I’m not going out on a limb here, the vaccine(s) have proven themselves effective.

Are the numbers low because of lockdown, vaccine or a combination of both? This remains to some extent unclear. The vaccines against variants even less proven to date. An order of 60 million Pfizer doses for autumn makes me think (as ever) the Government confidence levels aren’t that high.

Again I believe the volumes vaccinated, speak for themselves

Why not, what ones should we keep?

Distancing. Masks. Work from home if you can. The easy, no cost ones at a minimum while more people get vaccinated (twice) and more real world (not lab) data emerges on vaccine vs variants.

Originally Posted by Pierre

It’s Hugh the cableforum archivist again.

To be fair the statement in September was before mass vaccination, it’s totally different scenario now

I know - imagine using an existing search facility to provide information to support a proposition.

It’s almost as if you think providing facts and context was a bad thing…

btw, an archivist is a person who has the job of collecting and storing the materials in an archive - did you mean a researcher?

(In a previous life I was an Intelligence Analyst, so your poor attempts at derision for using skills I learned then are wasted - but keep on keepin’ on…)

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Well, would you mind telling me which variants are immune to the available vaccines? There is no point in worrying about something that has not happened.

We have been told that modified inoculations will be available this autumn, anyway. It takes only a few weeks to modify it as required.

Didn't say any current variants dodge current immunity. New variants are going to keep popping up, because people are determined to spread the existing ones, which then given the chance to evolve into new ones.
The fact that each time a new variant is announced, questions are asked and checks are made. demonstrates that it is considered a possibility. There can be no guarantees.

Viruses don't necessarily just badly affect those with weaker immune systems. Spanish Flu is an example of where those with strong immune systems were badly affected.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Well, would you mind telling me which variants are immune to the available vaccines? There is no point in worrying about something that has not happened.

We have been told that modified inoculations will be available this autumn, anyway. It takes only a few weeks to modify it as required.

https://news.sky.com/story/is-the-in...erned-12280387

Is the Indian variant more transmissible and will vaccines still work against it?

Dr Gurdasani, who trained as a doctor and worked in India for 10 years, said it is "very likely it's more transmissible".

She said: "There are two mutations here. The first is similar to the Manaus variant and we know that is affecting vaccine effectiveness.

"The second is the same as the Californian, which has been associated in labs with escaping immunity - both of antibodies and T-cells - and also increased transmissibility."

She continued: "This is quite worrying, it builds a really concerning picture as it ticks all the boxes for rising cases and outcompeting the vaccine.

"We don't have definitive data but we can see from the other variants there's more than enough to be concerned about."

Dr Gurdasani added that the Indian variant shares the same mutation as both the South African and Manaus variants, which has been associated with a reduction of effectiveness in the Oxford-AstraZeneca, Johnson and Johnson and Novavax vaccines.

The problem is, we don’t know, and until we do, caution should be our watchword, because we have recent first-hand experience of what happens when we don’t.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Distancing. Masks. Work from home if you can. The easy, no cost ones

Distancing = no cost? Try telling that to theatre, cinemas, restaurants, clubs etc. Your grasp of business as on point as usual.

while more people get vaccinated (twice) and more real world (not lab) data emerges on vaccine vs variants.

Let’s wait, and wait, and wait, and wait...........hold on.......are you Kier Starmer?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Distancing = no cost? Try telling that to theatre, cinemas, restaurants, clubs etc. Your grasp of business as on point as usual.

They can enjoy the next lockdown then, which as ever remains absolutely inevitable unless something of substance changes.

Let’s wait, and wait, and wait, and wait...........hold on.......are you Kier Starmer?

I think you'll find that it's official government policy to wait and judge the position on June 14. This Conservative Government led by Johnson.

They've also put local lockdown on the table. It's a slippery slope but one you seem desperate (as ever) to climb on.

---------- Post added at 22:49 ---------- Previous post was at 22:10 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

https://news.sky.com/story/is-the-in...erned-12280387

The problem is, we don’t know, and until we do, caution should be our watchword, because we have recent first-hand experience of what happens when we don’t.

As always this seems lost upon those who for 15 months now this has been a constant trait. Almost as if they enjoy a lockdown so insist upon spinning the roulette wheel to achieve another one.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

People haven't followed the rules since the start.

I still see Covidiots wearing masks under the nose, despite the tanoy announcements every 5 minutes (This includes staff).

The biggest mistake made was to give people the power of exemption without any proof needed nor allow staff to challenge because these Covidiots can cry discrimination.

They should have simply said no mask no entry no excuses no exemptions.

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

but then that discriminates against those with a legit reason

If you're to ill to wear a mask then you probably shouldn't be out in a pandemic anyway. Why their rights were given greater weight than the people's lives they might infect was never really explained

---------- Post added at 02:59 ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I’m saying that the vaccination programme has enabled us to reach a better place.

Do you really believe that predictions are made having regard to unknown factors? If that was the case we’d never do anything for fear of what might conceivably happen. Hell, we’d never want to go outside if that were the case, let alone cross the road!

So why make them

---------- Post added at 03:07 ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Well, would you mind telling me which variants are immune to the available vaccines? There is no point in worrying about something that has not happened.

We have been told that modified inoculations will be available this autumn, anyway. It takes only a few weeks to modify it as required.

Variants aren't immune, for the covid to be immune from vaccine it'll have to evolve into something entirely new, like covid 21 iirc. Heard a very interesting report on radio 4 earlier on bats, think it was called patient zero focusing on the Hendra virus and how bats host so many different viruses that continued further exposure to humans can only lead to more outbreaks, hendra virus is 60% fatal in humans and 90% fatal to horses so there's some real nasties in store for us if we carry on as we are

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I know - imagine using an existing search facility to provide information to support a proposition.

It’s almost as if you think providing facts and context was a bad thing…

btw, an archivist is a person who has the job of collecting and storing the materials in an archive - did you mean a researcher?

(In a previous life I was an Intelligence Analyst, so your poor attempts at derision for using skills I learned then are wasted - but keep on keepin’ on…)

Trawling up old posts from a single source, Cable Forum (I.e. an archive) .

And , anyone can use Google. But that wasn’t what I was referring to.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Not like you to do selective interpretation, OB.

I heard of increasing confidence. I heard nothing in absolute terms. The fact Boris took to television on Friday at 5pm makes me think that confidence isn’t that high - added to the u-turn on 12 weeks.



Here’s one for the scrap heap with it going away by itself in the summer.

It was not a selective interpretation, jfman. Did you actually watch the Andrew Marr Show?

As for the summer 2020 prediction, the virus did indeed reduce to minimal levels. It was the Kent variant that changed everything.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It was not a selective interpretation, jfman. Did you actually watch the Andrew Marr Show?

As for the summer 2020 prediction, the virus did indeed reduce to minimal levels. It was the Kent variant that changed everything.

So it didn’t go away by itself, in fact the opposite happened and it became more transmissible? That’s bad luck OB, I’ll give you that.

I don’t need to watch Andrew Marr - there’s a write up on the BBC website. You are conflating optimism, and indications with cold, hard evidence.

But let’s face it, you’ve ignored evidence since last February so why change the habit of the pandemic. I look forward to how you were right but for the pesky Indian variant on June 22 as we retain masks and distancing on the basis of actual evidence not optimism.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It was not a selective interpretation, jfman. Did you actually watch the Andrew Marr Show?

As for the summer 2020 prediction, the virus did indeed reduce to minimal levels. It was the Kent variant that changed everything.

No it was a few working vaccines that did that.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Didn't say any current variants dodge current immunity. New variants are going to keep popping up, because people are determined to spread the existing ones, which then given the chance to evolve into new ones.
The fact that each time a new variant is announced, questions are asked and checks are made. demonstrates that it is considered a possibility. There can be no guarantees.

Viruses don't necessarily just badly affect those with weaker immune systems. Spanish Flu is an example of where those with strong immune systems were badly affected.

So far, all of the vaccines work against the variants. Vaccines can be modified in about six weeks to take account of new strains where necessary. Like flu, there will be appropriately modified vaccines each year to be used as boosters. In fact, they may introduce joint flu/Covid vaccines.

---------- Post added at 13:33 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

So it didn’t go away by itself, in fact the opposite happened and it became more transmissible? That’s bad luck OB, I’ll give you that.

I don’t need to watch Andrew Marr - there’s a write up on the BBC website. You are conflating optimism, and indications with cold, hard evidence.

But let’s face it, you’ve ignored evidence since last February so why change the habit of the pandemic. I look forward to how you were right but for the pesky Indian variant on June 22 as we retain masks and distancing on the basis of actual evidence not optimism.

And you are accusing me of using selective arguments.