Election 2019 - Week 2

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Not quite, actually. The financial crash was not Labour's fault, and I think you will find that we have acknowledged that many times over on these forums, so I don't know why you trot this stuff out yet again.

Unfortunately, I now have to trot out the standard response, in the interests of balance.

Labour spent all of our reserves and so did not have any money for a rainy day. We had nothing to cover the deficit and basically, we were up the Swanee. Labour had no idea what to do and we were in real danger of going under. That's why austerity was necessary, but we all know that your answer would have been even more spending.

Socialists never learn.

Total Tory Spin, as usual. You are incapable of accepting the immorality of the free market and are incapable of assigning the blame where it belongs. All Government make mistakes and New Labour were no different than the rest. However, the greed of the City was the primary driver of the crash and the following recession. These facts are undeniable to anyone with an objective view.

---------- Post added at 19:26 ---------- Previous post was at 19:26 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

you've already been enlightened by others you just won't accept it.

Bless

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Not quite, actually. The financial crash was not Labour's fault, and I think you will find that we have acknowledged that many times over on these forums, so I don't know why you trot this stuff out yet again.

tbf he was replying to another poster who says it's 100% Labours fault ie. trotting out the same porky pies again.

2010 is a long time ago now, 'it's all Labours fault for the state of the country' is wearing thin ..

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Not quite, actually. The financial crash was not Labour's fault, and I think you will find that we have acknowledged that many times over on these forums, so I don't know why you trot this stuff out yet again.

Unfortunately, I now have to trot out the standard response, in the interests of balance.

Labour spent all of our reserves and so did not have any money for a rainy day. We had nothing to cover the deficit and basically, we were up the Swanee. Labour had no idea what to do and we were in real danger of going under. That's why austerity was necessary, but we all know that your answer would have been even more spending.

Socialists never learn.

But you consistently claim that the Labour Party is primarily responsible for austerity in this country when they are are not.

Meanwhile, Labour seems to have found an entire magic money forest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50427369

Labour has promised to give every home and business in the UK free full-fibre broadband by 2030, if it wins the general election.
The party would nationalise part of BT and introduce a tax on tech giants to cover the £20bn cost.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

Meanwhile, Labour seems to have found an entire magic money forest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50427369

And in one fell swoop, will put Virgin Media, City Fibre, all the Open reach piggy backers and all the other Alt-nets out of business.

That’s a lot of jobs lost and a lot of voters he has just lost with such crackpot idea.

What next, free Gas, Water and Electricity?

Edit...

This is priceless. They are going to nationalise OpenReach and call them “British Broadband” and get this

Mr McDonnell said that if other broadband providers did not want to give access to British Broadband, then they would also be taken into public ownership.

He’s a lunatic.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by ianch99

But you consistently claim that the Labour Party is primarily responsible for austerity in this country when they are are not.

In 2010 The government inherited massive ongoing extra costs(eg Tax Credit system). A lot of that extra spending was set in motion long before 2008. The average deficit for 2002-2007 was £42.5bn, and that includes spending the surplus from the conditions that Labour inherited, that peaked at £15.7bn in a year. The spending wasn't the sort of a household 12 month contract and cancel without penalty any time after that. It was firmly embedded and largely irreversible. All that extra pre-crash spending, resulted in over £10bn/year extra just in interest payments.

So not only do you have over £500bn of pre-crash excessive spending/borrowing, you have the buy now, pay later of PFI. If after 2010 the borrowing had been kept at 2009/10 levels, then another £600bn would have been added to the debt.

imagine the scenario where you inherit a business, but your predecessor had signed up to irreversible contracts that were unnecessarily expensive. Who is to blame for a future required cost-cutting exercise? The predecessor is. They were the ones that signed up to the unsustainable costs, that you cannot get out of.

Really would love to know what the Conservatives were meant to do in order to overnight reverse a £158.3bn deficit. Now that would have really been austerity.

Originally Posted by Pierre

And in one fell swoop, will put Virgin Media, City Fibre, all the Open reach piggy backers and all the other Alt-nets out of business.

That’s a lot of jobs lost and a lot of voters he has just lost with such crackpot idea.

What next, free Gas, Water and Electricity?

Edit...

This is priceless. They are going to nationalise OpenReach and call them “British Broadband” and get this



He’s a lunatic.

I predict this will unravel very quickly.

[Dave42]

whoever is next pm the country is screwed both Corbyn and Johnson are disasters and will totally ruin this county

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Total Tory Spin, as usual. You are incapable of accepting the immorality of the free market and are incapable of assigning the blame where it belongs. All Government make mistakes and New Labour were no different than the rest. However, the greed of the City was the primary driver of the crash and the following recession. These facts are undeniable to anyone with an objective view.

Ok, let's run with this a bit. What alternative system to capitalism would you have GB adopt, and how would this system make the majority better off?

You can complain about capitalism as much as you like, but which countries do refugees always flock to?

Contemplate that before you answer.

---------- Post added at 01:47 ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

But you consistently claim that the Labour Party is primarily responsible for austerity in this country when they are are not.

You see, you have this blind spot. I have acknowleged yet again that Labour was not responsible for the worldwide crash. You get that right?

The next stage of the thought process is why we didn't have sufficient resources at hand to whether the storm. That's where Labour fell down. It's where Labour always fall down. They just never learn.

They spent all the reserves, and have nothing to show for it! Except, yes, austerity.

---------- Post added at 01:48 ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Meanwhile, Labour seems to have found an entire magic money forest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50427369

Only the dreamers will accept this nonsense.

---------- Post added at 01:52 ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 ----------

Originally Posted by Dave42

whoever is next pm the country is screwed both Corbyn and Johnson are disasters and will totally ruin this county

Calm down, Dave. Vote Johnson and the country will prosper. You'd better believe it, because there is no credible alternative.

If you care about your future prosperity and that of your family and the country, vote for Boris.

Thank me only when you see the results. It will be sooner than you think.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Chris

Meanwhile, Labour seems to have found an entire magic money forest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50427369

Don't think the Tories can play that card any longer with the amount of spending/borrowing they're planning !

It's rattled a few cages for sure and could prove popular with the Joe public. Hence the panic.. VM/Sky/BT have had it easy, with spiralling bills, for far too long.

[jfman]

Labour spent all our reserves? Please enlighten me as to when the country hasn't been hundreds of billions in debt?

---------- Post added at 07:58 ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

And in one fell swoop, will put Virgin Media, City Fibre, all the Open reach piggy backers and all the other Alt-nets out of business.

That’s a lot of jobs lost and a lot of voters he has just lost with such crackpot idea.

What next, free Gas, Water and Electricity?

Edit...

This is priceless. They are going to nationalise OpenReach and call them “British Broadband” and get this

He’s a lunatic.

The services aren't creating genuine competition for consumers though. All of these "jobs" are inefficiencies and duplication in the sector pushing up prices for the consumer, not down.

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You can complain about capitalism as much as you like, but which countries do refugees always flock to?

Generally to the nearest safe country. Here's the top ten (thank you, Wikipedia).

1. Turkey
2. Pakistan
3. Lebanon
4. Iran
5. Bangladesh
6. Uganda
7. Ethiopia
8. Jordan
9. Germany
10. Democratic Republic of Congo

UK is 29th in the list.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by spiderplant

Generally to the nearest safe country. Here's the top ten (thank you, Wikipedia).

1. Turkey
2. Pakistan
3. Lebanon
4. Iran
5. Bangladesh
6. Uganda
7. Ethiopia
8. Jordan
9. Germany
10. Democratic Republic of Congo

UK is 29th in the list.

They may be the initial countries, but they are not the final desired destination. Eg They make it to Turkey, live there for a couple of years, have a home, jobs, etc, but still insist on risking their lives by attempting to cross by sea in a dinghy to Greece, to move to the West.

From 2015 UNHCR report about Syrians in Greece

60% said they had previously spent time in Turkey (31% had no reply to
this question), often in hotels and hostels
...
90% wanted to find asylum somewhere else in the EU, mostly in Germany
and Sweden, for better assistance and employment opportunities. More
than half intended to apply for family reunification once they arrived.

Norwegian Refugee Council

European politicians are struggling to deal with the consequences of the urgent measures introduced after the major influx of asylum seekers in 2015, when more than one million people applied for asylum in European countries. At that time, most came by sea from Turkey to Greece, before traveling further through the Balkans to countries in Western Europe.

And of course they've usually travelled hundreds or thousands of miles, all perfectly safely within their own country to begin with.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Chris

Meanwhile, Labour seems to have found an entire magic money forest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50427369

Good news for virgin and other private companies, Bt shares will be dumped as investors panic and pull out.


BT remains the biggest faller in the FTSE 100.

It's fallen more than 5% now, down 10.16 to 192.44.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

The services aren't creating genuine competition for consumers though. All of these "jobs" are inefficiencies and duplication in the sector pushing up prices for the consumer, not down.

I'm sure Tony Benn said the same about the British Car Industry in the 70's.....................................


Rather than giving choice, you want to give everyone vanilla broadband.

Typical Marxist/Communist, you'll have us all driving state manufactured Ladas/ Polski Fiats. Watching only a few state owned tv channels and radio, that show continual programmes about our dear Leader Father Corbyn.

---------- Post added at 09:27 ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

I predict this will unravel very quickly.

It will, whilst I disagree, I can understand the argument for Nationalisation of the rail, water and to a lesser extent power.

But the communications sector is not something that needs buggering about with. Communications are not like when the Post Office ran it. The speed of change and level of continual investment required would far outstrip anything a state owned vehicle could keep on top of, especially if they're giving it away for free.

It may have appeared to him as a great soundbite, but people will see it for what it is, pie in the sky election promises.