Boris Johnson

Originally Posted by Mick

Define what makes a good Prime Minister... ?

Tony Blair - former PM - Liar and chief when it came to WMD and the Iraq war.

Gordon Brown - Former PM - Sold Gold at rock bottom prices.

John Major - Former PM - Famous for Black Wednesday financial crisis, exit from ERM, billions wasted - almost resigned as PM.

David Cameron - Former PM - Failed to properly prepare the UK for possible departure from the EU, resigned when he said he would be around to enact the result of the EU Referendum, leave was never expected to win.

So what makes a good PM, because the last few, including the current one, over the last few decades, were/are not up to scratch IMO.

I think it's inevitable that the longer someone is a PM the more mistakes they would make. However I would judge it by the ability they have to follow through on policy, command their majority, behave somewhat statesman like on the world stage and generally have a hold on what they are doing.

In those respects i don't think Major, Blair or Cameron were that bad. They'll have have lists of achievements too: the economy, big reduction in child poverty and NHS waiting times etc.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Damien

I think it's inevitable that the longer someone is a PM the more mistakes they would make. However I would judge it by the ability they have to follow through on policy, command their majority, behave somewhat statesman like on the world stage and generally have a hold on what they are doing.

In those respects i don't think Major, Blair or Cameron were that bad. They'll have have lists of achievements too: the economy, big reduction in child poverty and NHS waiting times etc.

The trouble is voters always remember the worse things that they done rather then any good they did in their administration's.

[heero_yuy]

The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones. William Shakespeare.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Mick

Define what makes a good Prime Minister... ?

Tony Blair - former PM - Liar and chief when it came to WMD and the Iraq war.

Gordon Brown - Former PM - Sold Gold at rock bottom prices.

John Major - Former PM - Famous for Black Wednesday financial crisis, exit from ERM, billions wasted - almost resigned as PM.

David Cameron - Former PM - Failed to properly prepare the UK for possible departure from the EU, resigned when he said he would be around to enact the result of the EU Referendum, leave was never expected to win.

So what makes a good PM, because the last few, including the current one, over the last few decades, were/are not up to scratch IMO.

Indeed, good question. All you cite were poor in some respect or other. If all we have to choose from is the dross and Boris represents the best choice then we are indeed in dire straights.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Indeed, good question. All you cite were poor in some respect or other. If all we have to choose from is the dross and Boris represents the best choice then we are indeed in dire straights.

Hence my question to Mick - who does he want to lead the country ? If Boris is the answer then we might as well close UK plc now; we'll be the laughing stock of the world (even more so than the US..)

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Hence my question to Mick - who does he want to lead the country ? If Boris is the answer then we might as well close UK plc now; we'll be the laughing stock of the world (even more so than the US..)

Not a great lover of Maggie Thatcher personally but she makes these modern politicians look like 3rd rate clowns.

[Chloé Palmas]

Pretty much the same Den, though I think that first rate clowns also have the same effect on today's morons in Westminster.

---------- Post added at 17:07 ---------- Previous post was at 16:53 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

Define what makes a good Prime Minister... ?

Tony Blair - former PM - Liar and chief when it came to WMD and the Iraq war.

That was one of the best defining moments of his Prime Ministerial premiership IMO, you know...when the UK could actually go round the world and claim to be a global leader.

Now...well let's see how seriously the UK is taken.

Even if you didn't support the war what about the rest of the 10 years? Obviously you're not going to have supported what he did in opening up the UK to potential cheap labor from the East but what about the rest?

If you didn't like every single thing he did, I get it...but is there nothing he did that you are satisfied with?

You have picked one thing here but he is still better than May or Cameron in the most insulting way to both of them - they will never be even half the conservative that he was.

I hated the handgun ban but other than that I acknowledge all the good that Blair did.

David Cameron - Former PM - Failed to properly prepare the UK for possible departure from the EU, resigned when he said he would be around to enact the result of the EU Referendum, leave was never expected to win.

Meh, I think that the vote to legalize gay marriage was his biggest disaster - it split the party in such a way that the traditionalist voters of yester-year will never return.

Traditional family values voters will never return to the C&U party...ever. It is now a party of homosexuality and abortion.

So what makes a good PM, because the last few, including the current one, over the last few decades, were/are not up to scratch IMO.

May actually opens the eyes of many that being PM is no longer worth anything - it is much better to be the puppet master than the puppet as Johnson has shown. The first thing of any controversy he does since leaving as FS, and she takes the bait, falls into the trap and is now stuck. Major may be the only guiding hand as to how to get out now....but I'll wait for you reply first and then address how May now may have one shot at getting out of this.

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

Pretty much the same Den, though I think that first rate clowns also have the same effect on today's morons in Westminster.

---------- Post added at 17:07 ---------- Previous post was at 16:53 ----------



That was one of the best defining moments of his Prime Ministerial premiership IMO, you know...when the UK could actually go round the world and claim to be a global leader.

Now...well let's see how seriously the UK is taken.

Even if you didn't support the war what about the rest of the 10 years? Obviously you're not going to have supported what he did in opening up the UK to potential cheap labor from the East but what about the rest?

If you didn't like every single thing he did, I get it...but is there nothing he did that you are satisfied with?

You have picked one thing here but he is still better than May or Cameron in the most insulting way to both of them - they will never be even half the conservative that he was.

I hated the handgun ban but other than that I acknowledge all the good that Blair did.



Meh, I think that the vote to legalize gay marriage was his biggest disaster - it split the party in such a way that the traditionalist voters of yester-year will never return.

Traditional family values voters will never return to the C&U party...ever. It is now a party of homosexuality and abortion.



May actually opens the eyes of many that being PM is no longer worth anything - it is much better to be the puppet master than the puppet as Johnson has shown. The first thing of any controversy he does since leaving as FS, and she takes the bait, falls into the trap and is now stuck. Major may be the only guiding hand as to how to get out now....but I'll wait for you reply first and then address how May now may have one shot at getting out of this.

they are legal (and have been for over 50 years) but not compulsory...

[Chloé Palmas]

Oh, did you mean generally speaking or for membership of the Conservative party? Because if the latter, I would assume that it is practically compulsory. /Rasp

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

Oh, did you mean generally speaking or for membership of the Conservative party? Because if the latter, I would assume that it is practically compulsory. /Rasp

As a long standing member of the Tory party, no they’re not, and they’re not such a problem as a vociferous minority make out...

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by Mr K

P.S. I do hate to be pedantic but I hate American spellings. We're British and proud. It's 'favour'.

Argh, it irritated the shit out of my when my husband did it but what really got me is that we use laptops from the US and when they keyboard preference is set to US English it just randomly takes the letter "u" out of every word it feels like.

Grrr...(though it might just be a keyboard thing with Damien).

[richard s]

He will go down in history as Burka Boris the Buffoon... but I agree with him on this one.

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by Damien

Boris gets away with so much just because of his bumbling, eccentric, persona.

Not necessarily. He knows when there is weakness, he preys on it in a rather clumsy and affable manor....remember what happened when he spoke ill of folks in Liverpool? Howard made him go there, and apologize. He had an affair while serving in the shadow cabinet...Howard sacked him.

With May though, he has had a free ride all the way - every single time.

Why? Because she has no strength or conviction. More than just being a "flake" or whatever you want to call her, she is afraid.

Terrified of...well, everyone.

The mess after mess he has made as Foreign secretary...nobody from within government ever pulled him in line.

Remember him calling Thornberry by her husband's title?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...r-sexism-video

Look at the tongue lashing that an embattled speaker, in Bercow gave him.

May would never ever say a word to him...strong leaders though, do.

Cameron fought with him plenty, Howard sacked him - even IDS and Hague did not tolerate his wild behavior.

May does...usually with a smile and cute little nod. As if she knows her place and how she is to be subservient to whatever his whims / demands are.

What about when he said he would lie in front of the bulldozers to block a new runway at Heathrow only to make sure he was out of the country when the vote came?

See any other foreign secretary would be forced to vote yes - he too...if she wasn't PM.

When Goldsmith resigned as an MP, he ran as an independent and lost his own seat! The Tories did not even field a candidate as she was so afraid of it splitting the vote and giving the seat to the Lib Dems...what happened in the end again?

Or the money wasted on the Emirates Skyline near the O2 which no ones uses?

Yeah or the water canons when he was Mayor...I remember someone mentioning that when she sought the leadership...

Even his resignation from the Foreign Office was typically self-serving after doing so on the day a British citizen was killed as a result of a poisoning in which they suspect Russia.

How long did they let him stay in the official quarters even after Hunt had been confirmed as foreign secretary? When you have a weak leader you can get away with anything you want...think IDS or Howard etc would let him get away with what he has to date (in this last year) if they were leader? As soon as he quit as foreign secretary, the first time that he did something controversial she picked a fight over it. And lost.

He is like anyone else in politics - likely to savage the weakest to get to the top. His biggest mistake was staying on so long after the election / becoming FS in the first place. Then again, what difference did it make? He pissed all over her anyway.

He also seems to have a support base amongst these former colleagues in the media. Hence The Telegraph's support and, surprisingly since they're usually quite fair, The Spectator downplaying his every screw-up just because he used to be their editor.

He has Chris Grayling levels of achievement, a trial of failure in his wake, but is a contender fo the leadership because he can turn a phrase and has name recognition.

And that's without me mentioning his inability to tell the truth since that has already been discussed.

Still Corbyn had naff all qualification to be Labour Leader so maybe this is politics now.

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Finally...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45096519

But of course he won’t, as he is playing ‘dog whistle’ politics.

Originally Posted by Mick

John Major - Former PM - Famous for Black Wednesday financial crisis, exit from ERM, billions wasted - almost resigned as PM.

Okay so this is her one chance to go ahead and show some back bone / get a win...she will have to really come off as selfless, rather than selfish though - for once, take a hit for the team and really sacrifice, for the party.

Major resigned as party leader and then forced a vote of no confidence to be tabled, and beat Redwood, correct? (My memory is foggy plus I was only like 7 or something at the time).

If this investigation into Boris does lead to him being suspended, he won't be able to run for the leadership of the party, will he?

So...have the investigation into him go somewhere. Then as he is suspended, call a LE. If you lose...oh well. Either way Boris is screwed.

Now this won't happen, for 2 reasons:

1. May is the most idiotic woman going...even with Major's precedent she won't know how to pull this off without help. To put it mildly, she is too idiotic.

However she has staffers who will be able to do the hard work while she continues playing the role of the village idiot. So problem and obstacle number 1 is off set.

2. She is the most power hungry tramp going...she seems to have come to the agreement that she will take whatever (lying down usually), whenever and wherever, from whoever....so long as she gets to stay in power. She seems to have agreed this with, well...herself. (The last person left who thought that she herself had any dignity left).

She is unlikely to do something like this if she thinks that she is going to lose.

She has had some air of confidence when strutting into 1922 committee meetings knowing that she will survive so long a she provides what lip service that is needed. (No, that is not some vulgar reference to sexual gratuity before anyone starts...)

Now, if she stitches up Boris so that he can't run, there may well be so much anger that she actually loses the vote. Maybe.

At this point though, she has to remain totally committed to screwing Boris over, win or lose. She has to put the strongest conservative in there - either stealth and consensus like Davis or principled like Fox or Hammond.

So that person will not be toppled and can beat a weak Corbyn LP, effectively freezing Boris out of number 10 for good.

Sure, she'll be done as PM...so in some ways she needs to look at the positives. Like her daily torment and humiliation coming to an end.

She then needs to leave nasty little lines to say...people like Davis, and say stuff like "remember when Boris said that we would have a land of milk and honey and we would have our cake and eat it? Well obviously as a diabetic I can't but destroying his political career is sweet enough for both of us".

Or say to Gove "remember when you stabbed Boris in the back to let me become leader?" in ear shot of Boris.

Then she can take her seat in the Lords. She can turn around and say "yes, I was the most humiliated PM in history - but at least I managed to get there!"

Now obviously none of this will happen but the party chair seems to have other ideas - he looks to be fermenting his own run for leadership by complaining about Boris's article. He knows that she is too stupid to realize that she will now lose, but is she?

All that is just one big pip dream though, she really doesn't have the spine for any of that because of obstacle number 2...her own fear of...well, everything, and everyone.

Issue number 1 can be taken care of by those in power that dictate her every move.

Back to reality though....Boris is now in pole position to take over and call a GE so he can get enough of a majority to get a no deal vote through parliament ; because if not, we're staying in the EU.