Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Whilst I understand that people are unhappy about this proposal (I am too, and I voted against it in the poll), might it not be worth waiting to see if it is going to be implemented, then voting with our wallets.

[MovedGoalPosts]

Yes I could wait, and will vote with my wallet if it does get implemented in any way that might invade my browsing privacy.

But, I'd much prefer to be voicing my opinion now so that I avoid the hassle of having to move ISPs simply because some beancounter made a short sighted decision that could be avoided.

Agree wholeheartedly, Rob; just that some people appear to be jumping ship without seeing if it is implemented.

[CaptJamieHunter]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

So if you call and complain about your XBox or PS3 and that is the only web enabled device in the house how would that work!

Having neither device I wouldn't know. Note that I also said "in my experience".

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Whilst I understand that people are unhappy about this proposal (I am too, and I voted against it in the poll), might it not be worth waiting to see if it is going to be implemented, then voting with our wallets.

foreverwar, Virgin Media wouldn't go to the trouble of creating a customer page just about Webwise if they were not intending to do this. From that page, its clearly obvious that they have every intension of doing it.

Whilst I (mostly) agree with you, Mick, I hope against hope that the outcry raised by this and other sites may make them see sense.

If not, Be here I come......

[Toto]

Originally Posted by Mick

foreverwar, Virgin Media wouldn't go to the trouble of creating a customer page just about Webwise if they were not intending to do this. From that page, its clearly obvious that they have every intension of doing it.

Whilst I agree that they wouldn't go to that trouble, I'm really not sure that this is a 100% done deal.

They have invited feedback on the page a virginmedia.feedback news group, and some very intelligent feedback is being given.

Reading some of it, I even wonder if some of the questions are coming from VM staff too who are Virgin customers as well.

Well I phoned retentions earlier and stated and wanted it recording on my account notes that I do not want my browsing data tracked and sent to any other third party without my consent - I said I would consider such an act a breach of Data Protection and my own personal human rights to privacy and I would leave Virgin Media in an instant if they insist on this nonsense with Phorm.

The annoying factor is that I was told by the rep in retentions that the Phorm deal was mainly about protecting customers with anti-phishing protection. I had to correct him on that one though. I urge all customers not to fall for this line, if you feel compelled to ring the retentions department. Phorm is about targeted advertising, the anti-phishing protection is the 'sweetener' to keep us all quiet.

[Toto]

Originally Posted by Mick

Well I phoned retentions earlier and stated and wanted it recording on my account notes that I do not want my browsing data tracked and sent to any other third party without my consent - I said I would consider such an act a breach of Data Protection and my own personal human rights to privacy and I would leave Virgin Media in an instant if they insist on this nonsense with Phorm.

The annoying factor is that I was told by the rep in retentions that the Phorm deal was mainly about protecting customers with anti-phishing protection. I had to correct him on that one though. I urge all customers not to fall for this line, if you feel compelled to ring the retentions department. Phorm is about targeted advertising, the anti-phishing protection is the 'sweetener' to keep us all quiet.

Yeh, that's the really annoying thing. That smacks of either blind trust in VM's marketing of this service, failure to communicate properly to staff what the system is actually meant to achieve.....or complete cluelessness on the reps part.

I will assume its the first two.

[none]

As Mick said, they wouldn't go to the trouble of creating a customer page just about Webwise if they were not intending to do this, and certainly not to the point of writing to each and every customer.

From what has be written I’m utterly convinced that this will be rolled out whether there is an outcry or not. Sadly it’s looking like the only way this scheme will fail is if customers vote with their wallets to such extent that VM are forced to review their partnership with these scumbags. For now I too am hoping against hope that they see the light, though I won’t hold my breath on that score :P

Still, its encouraging to see them scrambling around trying to get some sort of press release out there ASAP to help downplay the significance of Phom/Webwise. Shows they are nervous about it and the massive amount of bad press its receiving.

[Toto]

none. Maybe there will be a legal challenge to the system, I nearly choked on my chips when somebody pointed out that the so called privacy "audit" carried out by Earnst and Young may only apply in America.

I dunno, as annoyed as I am by this, something tells me that a few people in VM are going to wake up to the fact that this is not the way forward, or at least not the right time to be considering this.

EDIT:

Opting out. Just got this from BT @ http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/how-it-works.html

BT Webwise uses cookies stored on your computer to capture your preference. These cookies are linked to individual computers, user accounts and browsers, so you will need to switch the service on or off from each computer, user account and browser you use. If you delete the cookie, you'll need to reset your preference.

So then its an Opt-Out system based on a cookie. Each cookie must be applied to each broweser, in each individual user profile. Delete the cookie and you are automatically opted back in.

Looks like your opt-out request if this goes ahead Mick is not worth the electricity your note to retentions was recorded on.

[popper]

i take it then that my idea of sending a cheap and cheerful registered post 'Data Protection Notice' removing any and all rights now and in the future to process or export your personal data outside the basic supply and billing of your BB account isnt anyones first choice to stop them cold?

you would rather run away to another ISP that may at some point take up one of many intercepting options in the future?.

what do you do then, as the first major battles already been allowed to happen with phorm BT and Virgin Media at the center.

if they can do it so will we type company response.....

[none]

Originally Posted by Toto

none. Maybe there will be a legal challenge to the system, I nearly choked on my chips when somebody pointed out that the so called privacy "audit" carried out by Earnst and Young may only apply in America.

I dunno, as annoyed as I am by this, something tells me that a few people in VM are going to wake up to the fact that this is not the way forward, or at least not the right time to be considering this.

I sincerely hope your right, I really do. This is the biggest shake up in the ISP world since I don’t know when. The implications of such a system are far out reaching and scary to say the least.

What we don’t want is this system to go live and then have to wait a few years for it to go through the legal system by which time all of our data is ‘out there’ in the wild. So although there might be a legal challenge, it may at that time be too late.

Personally Id rather switch provider when this goes live and then sit on the side lines until it is resolved either one way or the other.

Still there’s always hope VM wake up and smell the coffee, though like many others I’ll be hedging my bets.

[Toto]

Originally Posted by popper

i take it then that my idea of sending a cheap and cheerful registered post 'Data Protection Notice' removing any and all rights now and in the future to process or export your personal data outside the basic supply and billing of your BB account isnt anyones first choice to stop them cold?

Its a spanking good idea......we still need to establish though if this Phorm system actually breaches the DPA, and the only person who can say so with any real authority is the Information Commisioner. He would then need to be challenged in court if he said the information passed to Phorm did not breach the DPA in its current form.

Who's got the cash to do that?

[Ravenheart]

I hope you folks don't mind me posting this link, but I've been trying to alert as many folks as I can about the whole Phorm issue. After posting on a forum I'm a member of. the guy who runs it (BBC Journalist) gave me a link to this site, he seems to be getting some sort of dialogue with Phorm.

You can find the site here http://www.politicalpenguin.org.uk/blog/

I hope this helps as he has some really useful stuff on there.