UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

It's the best session ever,he's really on the ball.

Indeed, in very much the same manner as Ali Dia was.

Boris did rather well considering. Corbyn, however, really didn’t sound like his heart was in it and decided to prattle on about Thomas Cook when the prime minster’s recent shoeing at the pleasure of the Supreme Court was surely the biggest, widest open goal any leader of the opposition will ever have. He should have gone at it relentlessly for 15 minutes (pretty much as Boris did in his opening speech) but, bizarrely, he didn’t.

I tend to believe Boris’ suggestion that Corbyn personally does want to lance the boil and have an election, but is being held hostage by his own shadow cabinet. I loved it when Boris made a snide reference to “the shadow leader of the opposition”.

[jfman]

Boris is trying to goad a reaction. If politicians want to remain or a second referendum then they should seize the opportunity to do so. Otherwise this has all gone on long enough, and I say that as someone who has thoroughly enjoyed the spectacle of a constitutional crisis.

At some point a 2nd referendum or GE is required to end up remaining, or probably both. Get on with it, shove Corbyn out the way or hold your nose and back him for a few months.

I agree, he’s raising the stakes because it’s either that or fold. He can’t walk away now. He has no choice but to attack the court, Corbyn and anything else he sees in front of him. His gamble is that in a people v establishment election, the people will see him as on their side. The longer Labour allows itself the be painted as scared of an election, the more likely Boris’ gamble is to pay off.

But you’re right, one way or another this has now got to end, and soon.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jfman

Boris is trying to goad a reaction. If politicians want to remain or a second referendum then they should seize the opportunity to do so. Otherwise this has all gone on long enough, and I say that as someone who has thoroughly enjoyed the spectacle of a constitutional crisis.

At some point a 2nd referendum or GE is required to end up remaining, or probably both. Get on with it, shove Corbyn out the way or hold your nose and back him for a few months.

The only way an election will happen is once an extension to the Brexit exit date is agreed. Until then, nothing will happen but Boris Johnson is far, far better at playing this game than Jeremy Corbyn.

[Gavin78]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The only way an election will happen is once an extension to the Brexit exit date is agreed. Until then, nothing will happen but Boris Johnson is far, far better at playing this game than Jeremy Corbyn.

I agree and while I wouldn't vote Labour anyway, Corbyn doesn't seem to be doing much unless he has something big planned election time and is playing it cool.

I suppose all are waiting to see what the EU are going to do as well

The language does need to calm down. It's absurd. Genuine hate is entering the mainstream of our politics really, really quickly.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Damien

The language does need to calm down. It's absurd. Genuine hate is entering the mainstream of our politics really, really quickly.

Hatred of Marxism and by corollary its exponents in Parliament doesn't seem unreasonable.

Originally Posted by Chris

I agree, he’s raising the stakes because it’s either that or fold. He can’t walk away now. He has no choice but to attack the court, Corbyn and anything else he sees in front of him. His gamble is that in a people v establishment election, the people will see him as on their side. The longer Labour allows itself the be painted as scared of an election, the more likely Boris’ gamble is to pay off.

But you’re right, one way or another this has now got to end, and soon.

We could well be back here again in a few months especially since odds are it's a hung Parliament again.

Also This atmosphere is here to say either post Brexit or post Election.

I think those who believe that it'll all calm down and we'll all just pull together and get on with it after Brexit are as misguided as the people who think a Remain victory after a referendum will make it go away.

As for the Government after the election then Boris Johnson won't govern as the liberal 'one-nation' conservative we thought he might be pre-Brexit because he can't row back from this tone or approach easily. His old allies on that side of the party are against him or kicked out of the party. His allies now do not see the world that way. If Corbyn becomes PM, especially if it's in alliance with the SNP, then there will be half of this country who'll think it faces an existential threat. Scotland and Northern Ireland won't go away as issues either.

May's deal should have passed first time. Massive mistake IMO.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Hatred of Marxism and by corollary its exponents in Parliament doesn't seem unreasonable.

Marxism doesn’t exist in the UK. Democratic socialism does.

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 22:21 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

We could well be back here again in a few months especially since odds are it's a hung Parliament again.

Also This atmosphere is here to say either post Brexit or post Election.

I think those who believe that it'll all calm down and we'll all just pull together and get on with it after Brexit are as misguided as the people who think a Remain victory after a referendum will make it go away.

As for the Government after the election then Boris Johnson won't govern as the liberal 'one-nation' conservative we thought he might be pre-Brexit because he can't row back from this tone or approach easily. His old allies on that side of the party are against him or kicked out of the party. His allies now do not see the world that way. If Corbyn becomes PM, especially if it's in alliance with the SNP, then there will be half of this country who'll think it faces an existential threat. Scotland and Northern Ireland won't go away as issues either.

May's deal should have passed first time. Massive mistake IMO.

In that case we should do what other countries do. Election after election after election until someone can deliver one way or the other and govern.

If the UK needs to end it needs to end. No great loss. England can be England and discover it’s own identity.

I do agree though that not passing May’s deal could well be regretted by ardent remainers. I said at the time it probably gave everyone enough (except the DUP/ERG) to move on.

For entertainment only here’s Pierre and I agreeing on it.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...&postcount=205

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

We could well be back here again in a few months especially since odds are it's a hung Parliament again.

Also This atmosphere is here to say either post Brexit or post Election.

I think those who believe that it'll all calm down and we'll all just pull together and get on with it after Brexit are as misguided as the people who think a Remain victory after a referendum will make it go away.

As for the Government after the election then Boris Johnson won't govern as the liberal 'one-nation' conservative we thought he might be pre-Brexit because he can't row back from this tone or approach easily. His old allies on that side of the party are against him or kicked out of the party. His allies now do not see the world that way. If Corbyn becomes PM, especially if it's in alliance with the SNP, then there will be half of this country who'll think it faces an existential threat. Scotland and Northern Ireland won't go away as issues either.

May's deal should have passed first time. Massive mistake IMO.

I think Boris has to take his non-inclusive approach in order to keep the Brexit Party at bay. As things stand, it looks unlikely that we will exit the EU on 31st October which will severely weaken Boris Johnson who staked his reputation on achieving this.

---------- Post added at 22:45 ---------- Previous post was at 22:40 ----------

Originally Posted by Gavin78

I suppose all are waiting to see what the EU are going to do as well

EU will just react to proposals from the UK. If the UK requests an extension, I'm sure that request will be granted. If the UK devises a solution that will deliver the benefits that a backstop would, I'm sure that could result in a deal.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jfman

Boris is trying to goad a reaction. If politicians want to remain or a second referendum then they should seize the opportunity to do so. Otherwise this has all gone on long enough, and I say that as someone who has thoroughly enjoyed the spectacle of a constitutional crisis.

At some point a 2nd referendum or GE is required to end up remaining, or probably both. Get on with it, shove Corbyn out the way or hold your nose and back him for a few months.

But who, in your words, can "shove Corbyn out the way"? His opposition within his party are weak with no guts and JC's inner circle just keep telling him he is wonderful.

The Lib Dems have also made a big mistake in putting the Revoke stake in the ground "when we are in Government", really? Get real. They should be cementing a centre ground coalition to prevent Farage and his cohorts from teaming up with Johnson and taking us off into a necon paradise.

It is as if *all* politicians, from all sides, have lost all sense of perspective.

---------- Post added at 22:53 ---------- Previous post was at 22:50 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

It's the best session ever,he's really on the ball.

Yeah, his dismissal of MPs' death threats as humbug ... really on the ball. The man is a cretin ..

Originally Posted by Damien

The language does need to calm down. It's absurd. Genuine hate is entering the mainstream of our politics really, really quickly.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Hatred of Marxism and by corollary its exponents in Parliament doesn't seem unreasonable.

QED

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Damien

The language does need to calm down. It's absurd. Genuine hate is entering the mainstream of our politics really, really quickly.

Well, it takes two sides to tango. The anger seems to be on the remainer side due to the proroguing of Parliament. If they calm down, I am sure it will be reciprocated.

The anger on the streets will not go away until this matter is resolved, and if the electorate do not get what they voted for, that is to leave, everything will be escalated. Remainers cannot just shout insults and ignore what the majority want. They need to vote and help us achieve a deal which enables us to forge our own trade deals with the rest of the world.

If they don't do this, we will have the scenario they say they don't want ie, a 'no deal'.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Well, it takes two sides to tango. The anger seems to be on the remainer side due to the proroguing of Parliament. If they calm down, I am sure it will be reciprocated.

The anger on the streets will not go away until this matter is resolved, and if the electorate do not get what they voted for, that is to leave, everything will be escalated. Remainers cannot just shout insults and ignore what the majority want. They need to vote and help us achieve a deal which enables us to forge our own trade deals with the rest of the world.

If they don't do this, we will have the scenario they say they don't want ie, a 'no deal'.