T-Mobile and Orange to merge

[BenMcr]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8243226.stm

T-Mobile UK and Orange are to merge - becoming the UK's biggest mobile phone firm with 28.4 million customers.

Doesn't mention Virgin Mobile, but Orange are probably the least likely to get nasty with them (I hope)

[irishguymcr]

Thanks for this info Ben maybe now Apple will have a rethink about giving exclusivity to O2 for the iphone as O2 will no longer be the biggest operator.

[BenMcr]

Read a bit further into it. It seems that half the new company will still be half owned by T-Mobile so there shouldn't be any change at all for Virgin Mobile - except access to Orange coverage

Orange would not give me a contract T mobile did I wonder what will happen at upgrade time

---------- Post added at 10:10 ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 ----------

Originally Posted by irishguymcr

Thanks for this info Ben maybe now Apple will have a rethink about giving exclusivity to O2 for the iphone as O2 will no longer be the biggest operator.

Jailbreaking and unlocking the Iphone is common place nowadays

[dilli-theclaw]

Indeed, my iPhone 3g works very well on Virgin mobile

[m419]

Orange is NOT going to merge with T-Mobile as France Telecom has denied this and has insufficient funds to do so.

The bidders will be Vodafone and 3.

Vodafone may find it difficult because the competition commision might get involved and T-Mobile and Vodafone run on two very different frequencies whilst 3 and T-Mobile run on similar frequencies and also share 3G sites. Hutchison Whampoa has a lot more funds than France Telecom.

T-Mobile have quietly being offering the Iphone to high spending customers who are threatning to leave as a retentional deal.

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 ----------

Omg it is true! Well time to ditch my back up T-Mobile sim. Orange is Crap!

[v0id]

Originally Posted by zing

Orange would not give me a contract T mobile did....

Really? It was the other way around with me. (Well, Tmobile were one2one back then)

Originally Posted by m419

Omg it is true! Well time to ditch my back up T-Mobile sim. Orange is Crap!

Isn't that kind of cutting your nose off to spite your face?

[AndyCambs]

What does worry me is the comment in the BBC news:

Customers on existing contracts would not see their tariffs changed, he said.
"But when your contract comes up for renewal you may well find the price is more expensive."

I wonder how this leaves the Virgin Mobile customers when their contracts come for renewal?

Whilst it's not a merger as such, it's about as close as you can get to it without calling it a merger:

Today we've had the announcement that France Telecom and Deutsche Telekom are combining their UK mobile operations, which means that Orange will be glued to T-Mobile.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by AndyCambs

I wonder how this leaves the Virgin Mobile customers when their contracts come for renewal?

It shouldn't affect them as the price they pay is tied into the agreement VM have to operate on the T-Mobile network

As T-Mobile will retain part ownership then the agreement remains in place and so should the prices and terms.

However the sticking point will come at the next renewal of the MVNO agreement

[nodrogd]

Some analysts are saying that the regulators may insist on a Virgin split:

"Regulators will most likely focus on the two firms’ partnerships, the Ovum analysts said. “Regulators will have to look at the Virgin Mobile wholesale deal with T-Mobile and T-Mobile’s network-sharing deal with 3,” Hartley and Obiodu said.

“We expect the Virgin Mobile deal to be decoupled – Orange/T-Mobile tacitly suggested this by separating out Virgin Mobile’s customers in their subscriber data,” they added."

Full article here : http://www.itpro.co.uk/614878/surpri...ange-uk-market

[BenMcr]

I think that just means make it clear who are VM customers in the 'this is how many people we have using our network' data rather than anything serious

[Taf]

Less competition, fewer good deals I bet...

[m419]

Yeah because if you are a Virgin Mobile 3G customer you will be using:

T-Mobile or Orange's 2G network and then you will be using 3's 3G network, its like one big network and can't see the goverment going with that!

However when Virgin and T-Mobile signed agreements and contracts for Virgin Mobile to use the T-Mobile network the contracts generally run for a period of 5 to 10 years, so they can't just kick them off. Its like when you sell a house with sitting tennants in, you can't just chuck them out.

What if Virgin uses the 3 network, that is more likely to happen, following reasons:

3 won't be expensive, 3 will get desperate and will offer Virgin Media a good deal.

3 does not compete with Virgin Media on services such as homephone,broadband,dial up internet,Analogue TV,Digital TV,FM Radio or business telecoms products.

So that will create a good partnership.

O2 competes with Virgin Broadband

Vodafone competes with Virgin phone and Virgin Broadband with its Vodafone at home service.

Orange also competes with Virgin phone and Virgin Broadband,Orange also offers Business telecoms products which you could say compete with NTL Telewest Business services.

Orange and Vodafone work with Arquiva formerly NTL Broadcast, Arquiva is planning to launch IPTV services similar to Tiscali TV in the UK, When France Telecom got rid of its shares in NTL, it quit working with NTL UK and some kind of industry dispute arose, so I cannot see Virgin Media working with a group that competes in every way and cannot see Virgin Media working with orange when it works with Arquiva as its planning to launch a TV service which threatens Cable TV.

So for good working relations, 3 would be the best partner.

3 will offer 98% 3G coverage of the UK population, in the past it had issues with network coverage, that was because the network was new and 3G technology was just taking off in Britain, I have seen an improvement.

I think once 3 has completed its improvements to network coverage it should launch a new advertising campaign focusing on the network coverage issue, it could offer a 30 day money back gaurantee if customers find the network coverage poor, and then launch something similar to Orange's network performance promise, where phone calls drop due to poor coverage offer reimbursements.

From my experience, I found Orange 2G and 3G quite bad where ever I go, on the 2G reception from Orange, the reception bars would bounce up and down and offer poor sound quality during calls, when sending texts, i would sometimes have to press resend because the reception bars would immediately go to 0 or 1 bar and this was with a few phones. Now my problem with Orange 3G, I would get no coverage in my house and if I put it on dual mode, while i'm out it would constantly bounce from 2G to 3G all the time which meant missing incomming calls during the automatic process. Another problem with Orange 3G is that when using features such as You Tube, it would frequently keep braking out when streaming.

Now I don't get any of those problems with 3.

Now the problem with T-Mobile 2G, indoor coverage is shocking,not just my house but at work and virtually every building i go into, and as for basement flats! Forget it! Voicemail definately useful there lol Another problem I have experienced is when going outside london especially semi rural areas, the reception again lets me down.

I have no proper experience of T-Mobile's 3G coverage, as I have always had 2G phones when using T-Mobile or Virgin Mobile.

[Hom3r]

Perhaps I'll get a decent signal on my orange phone now, My T-mobile had full signal at all times.

[m419]

It will take a while before you see any changes.

Also what will happen to emergency services and International operator?

On T-Mobile its provided by Cable and Wireless
On Orange its provided by BT (Orange doesnt have international operator)

I think what they will do is run the two companies seperately like Vodafone and 3 in Australia.

In Australia, 3 and Vodafone are now owned by one group Vodafone-Hutchison Australia. However, 3 and Vodafone trade seperately.

In Australia, Hutchison quit using the Orange brand name when it migrated all its 2G customers to 3, therefore the Hutchison network in Australia is now completely 3G like here in the UK, I suppose integrating the two networks will allow better 3G coverage and provide 2G coverage for 3 customers.

Maybe thats what they will do here with Orange and T-Mobile. The group name could be called Deutsch Telekom Orange UK and T-Mobile UK and Orange Personal Communications services could be subsidaries. They could then merge the networks together but have two seperate customer bases as we currently know them.

A new subsidary could be formed specifically for business customers under a new brand name.

The T-Mobile brand is very popular and is known in many countries around the world, so I could not see Deutsche Telekom just sit there and let there brand which they spent billions on promoting go down the toilet just like that, they will continue using it.

Orange is the same, its the best brand name which France Telecom holds and spent a hell of a lot purchasing it from the previous owners together with the networks, in fact Hutchison continued leasing the brand from France Telecom in several countries around the world including Hong Kong until they launched 3.

Therefore existing names will probably be used.