Brexit (Old)

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by denphone

Is it not quite obvious that we are the country leaving the EU so It's up to us to come up with solutions and thus so far we have come up with none.

exactly Den

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Damien

Meh. As with the EU statement yesterday I am not sure what's changed. Tough talk but no climb down on Chequers and seems more a rebuke to their rebuke yesterday as well as tossing some red meat to the Brexit press and those in her party.

All seems a bit repeat the same old thing and expecting a different outcome whilst changing nothing.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Dave42

exactly Den

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone
Is it not quite obvious that we are the country leaving the EU so It's up to us to come up with solutions and thus so far we have come up with none.

Cobblers. A negotiation requires two sides at minimum. We come up with proposals, they should either agree or spell out what is wrong with a particular item. Then iterate until agreement is reached.

What you Remainers should be decrying is what Macron said. He is the arch-enemy (along with the Brussels ***s). Now is not the time to sneer at the UK even if May has not handled this optimally from the start (i.e. understanding from the Greek lesson how the EU would behave).

We can decry who we want. The EU isn't sitting there reading this forum as a measurement of the British resolve.

Besides I don't think much has changed. This little fight was always bound to happen and to be honest I think it probably helps May sell Chequers to Brexiters if it's seen as being forced upon the EU rather than amicably accepted so easily.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone
Is it not quite obvious that we are the country leaving the EU so It's up to us to come up with solutions and thus so far we have come up with none.

Cobblers. A negotiation requires two sides at minimum. We come up with proposals, they should either agree or spell out what is wrong with a particular item. Then iterate until agreement is reached.

What you Remainers should be decrying is what Macron said. He is the arch-enemy (along with the Brussels ***s). Now is not the time to sneer at the UK even if May has not handled this optimally from the start (i.e. understanding from the Greek lesson how the EU would behave).

Negotiation is based on finding agreement between 2 points. The EU 4 freedoms are not up for negotiation. Therefore a route such as the one Canada has needs to be looked at. Chequers does not work with the EU 4 Freedoms.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone
Is it not quite obvious that we are the country leaving the EU so It's up to us to come up with solutions and thus so far we have come up with none.

Cobblers. A negotiation requires two sides at minimum. We come up with proposals, they should either agree or spell out what is wrong with a particular item. Then iterate until agreement is reached.

What you Remainers should be decrying is what Macron said. He is the arch-enemy (along with the Brussels ***s). Now is not the time to sneer at the UK even if May has not handled this optimally from the start (i.e. understanding from the Greek lesson how the EU would behave).

One l resent being called a remainer as much as some resent being called a Brexiteer as its us the UK that are leaving the EU and not them so why should they make it easy for us to leave as thus so far for two years since the referendum it was up to us to come up with agreeable solutions but thus so far its been a complete omnishambles from HMG as thus so far our solutions or lack of them have amounted to diddly squat.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Angua

Negotiation is based on finding agreement between 2 points. The EU 4 freedoms are not up for negotiation. Therefore a route such as the one Canada has needs to be looked at. Chequers does not work with the EU 4 Freedoms.

I have no problem with what you've said. Chequers was a bad move that we all could see was either detrimental to the UK or would not be accepted by the EU. May's advisers should have foreseen that. I'd be happy with a Canada type deal. I doubt that we'll get that, though because the Irish border would be the stumbling block.

I also want to see the perfidious Irish PM punished in some way for his perfidy. Indeed I should add him to the list of ***s headed by Brussels and Macron.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I have no problem with what you've said. Chequers was a bad move that we all could see was either detrimental to the UK or would not be accepted by the EU. May's advisers should have foreseen that. I'd be happy with a Canada type deal. I doubt that we'll get that, though because the Irish border would be the stumbling block.

I also want to see the perfidious Irish PM punished in some way for his perfidy. Indeed I should add him to the list of ***s headed by Brussels and Macron.

Problem you have there, it is the Northern Irish who are being punished by Brexit with all the problems it will cause the GFA.

The only way to avoid a hard border is not to leave the EU.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by denphone

One l resent being called a remainer as much as some resent being called a Brexiteer as its us the UK that are leaving the EU and not them so why should they make it easy for us to leave as thus so far for two years since the referendum it was up to us to come up with agreeable solutions but thus so far its been a complete omnishambles from HMG as thus so far our solutions or lack of them have amounted to diddly squat.

Resent as much as you like. If it isn't accurate, please say so and I can withdraw the handle.

The EU is a dictatorial, bullying organisation notwithstanding the UK government's mess over the past two years.

Btw, why should they make it difficult for us to leave - for that is what they are doing? If they are sincere about wanting a deal, they'd stop behaving like pigs.

---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:14 ----------

Originally Posted by Angua

Problem you have there, it is the Northern Irish who are being punished by Brexit with all the problems it will cause the GFA.

I doubt that. They are the piggy in the middle, made so by the EU and not by us. The EU's intransigence on this was/is a direct attempt to derail Brexit. It is now more important than ever to leave the undemocratic EU.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

Meh. As with the EU statement yesterday I am not sure what's changed. Tough talk but no climb down on Chequers and seems more a rebuke to their rebuke yesterday as well as tossing some red meat to the Brexit press and those in her party.

Before the speech, Sam Coates of The Times tweeted:

Three options for Theresa May this pm

1. Say she’s suspending negotiations because she’s run out of road to force EU rethink

2. Suddenly change position & say shes not going to sign up to the NI backstop and ramp up no deal planning

3. Ramp up linguistically but w/o substance

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/s...05494188126209

Obviously, she went for number three.

Reading the rest of Sam's tweets. it appears that May could have blundered yesterday by 1) reading out a document to tired people who had already read it 2) dismissed an EU creative solution to the island of Ireland issue that had taken days of work withourt reading it.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Resent as much as you like. If it isn't accurate, please say so and I can withdraw the handle.

The EU is a dictatorial, bullying organisation notwithstanding the UK government's mess over the past two years.

Btw, why should they make it difficult for us to leave - for that is what they are doing? If they are sincere about wanting a deal, they'd stop behaving like pigs.

---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:14 ----------



I doubt that. They are the piggy in the middle, made so by the EU and not by us. The EU's intransigence on this was/is a direct attempt to derail Brexit. It is now more important than ever to leave the undemocratic EU.

The EU have offered a solution. Anything you might want would mean a fundamental change to the EU. We are leaving, we don't get to change the EU to suit.

[Pierre]

I, and Mrs Pierre, voted Remain, but if there was referendum tomorrow I would vote Brexit. I wouldn’t want to be part of this outfit, regardless.

On sale at the UKIP Conference - Nigel Farage condoms.

[denphone]

Is that the bargain basement corner.

[OLD BOY]

[QUOTE=Angua;35963908]Problem you have there, it is the Northern Irish who are being punished by Brexit with all the problems it will cause the GFA.

The only way to avoid a hard border is not to leave the EU.[/QUOTE]

Which, of course, is the opposite of what the electorate voted for.

The Irish government had better be careful. If we are forced to accept WTO and the EU impose a trade border, we might just decide to impose a trade embargo and shift our Irish trade to the US or somewhere else instead.

Could turn nasty.