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Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
View Poll Results: Will you be opting out of the Virgin Ad Deal?
Yes, Definitely. 958 95.51%
No, I am quite happy to share my surfing habits with anyone. 45 4.49%
Voters: 1003. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 24-02-2008, 23:12   #211
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by petersamson View Post
I imagine (in response to multiple computers through NAT) it will become more and more the onus upon the account holder to defend themselves.

There will be a link to phorm to opt out completely and they will ask you to visit it on all devices that can access the internet so one users data doesn't cross over. There will be another link to contact a customer service operative for larger organisations on a case by case basis where they will block an IP from all adverts that are remote third party risky, but push through those from respected advertisers without using keywords, so a safe advert policy. Along with a requirement to renew this every 6 months say on a rolling basis.

To avoid every customer using this they can implement very strict filters on the sites you can visit through the phishing mechanism for your IP, so anything "rated 18" will be blocked and logged, then queried as to why you need an exception on this basis for your internet facing IP and a recommendation you switch back to the cookie method of opting out for individual devices.
You seem to know a lot about the finer detail.

But why all the opt out stuff. This should be opt in, and certainly if you have opted out that's it, you should not have to go through that rigmarole every few months. Or is that a sneaky way of catching people back into the dodgy net?

Bottom line I do not want or accept this system as being something I want anywhere near my browsing habits. I do have nothing to hide. I just will not accept it. If brought in without a clear opt in policy that guarantees my privacy, Virgin Media will loose my custom.

---------- Post added at 23:12 ---------- Previous post was at 23:05 ----------

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/investi...5&in_page_id=3

Quote:
He once flew wealthy business executives to the edges of space in Russian fighter jets for $10,000 a time. He offered people the chance to turn their life stories into CD-Roms. And he planted pop-up adverts in personal computers with sophisticated but notorious ' spyware'.

<snip>

Financial Mail has found that Ertugrul and his company were responsible for one of the most unpopular pieces of spyware software, PeopleOnPage, which once installed was difficult to shift.
Do you really trust someone with such a reputation anywhere near your privacy
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Old 25-02-2008, 01:00   #212
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

I did my best to read through the posts, but I'm sorry if I missed one. My main concern is, is this technology going to be injecting things into our pages, even if we opt out?

That is to say, when I go to a website, I am no longer getting the original version of that website, but instead a page that has been processed by phorm and had their javascript code injected into it, then passed back onto me?

Furthermore, the information about the scam protection seems particularly worrying - that again, all our website requests are going through phorm and then to the server, then back through phorm and back to us - even if we opt out with the cookie, presumably this gross violation of privacy and annoying transparent proxy of forms will be in the way - the cookie will just tell it to skip the warning, but it's still all happening behind the scenes.

As phorm is so happy to say, this is on the ISP network, and thus I will no longer trust the Virgin Media ISP network - there doesn't seem to be any way out, and the opt out process certainly wont help
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Old 25-02-2008, 01:33   #213
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by petersamson View Post
I imagine (in response to multiple computers through NAT) it will become more and more the onus upon the account holder to defend themselves.

It's going to cause a lot of family rows.. People have joked about the father in the family looking at porn, and the mother catching him, but what if it's something more serious? Not that I am suggesting for a second that Porn isn't serious.

A child suffering abuse from their father, then looking up advice on the Childline site, then the father logging on and getting ads for Child Protection stuff?

A daughter thinking she might be pregnant, going to various advice sites, looking up pregnancy testing kits, then another member of the family logging in and getting ads for pregnancy related stuff. I could go on with other examples, but you get the gist. Virgin's action could end up causing a lot of people a *lot* of problems.

As for all this "opt out" nonsense, I am not a lawyer, but that would appear to be a clear violation of the Data Protection Act 1998 which requires that users be offered the chance to opt *in* to (not out of) schemes such as these.

Simply put, this system stinks.
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Old 25-02-2008, 06:53   #214
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart C View Post
As for all this "opt out" nonsense, I am not a lawyer, but that would appear to be a clear violation of the Data Protection Act 1998 which requires that users be offered the chance to opt *in* to (not out of) schemes such as these.

Simply put, this system stinks.
It will be Opt Out for one reason

virgin Media will make

££££

Thats why.
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Old 25-02-2008, 10:28   #215
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart C View Post
It's going to cause a lot of family rows.. People have joked about the father in the family looking at porn, and the mother catching him, but what if it's something more serious? Not that I am suggesting for a second that Porn isn't serious.

A child suffering abuse from their father, then looking up advice on the Childline site, then the father logging on and getting ads for Child Protection stuff?

A daughter thinking she might be pregnant, going to various advice sites, looking up pregnancy testing kits, then another member of the family logging in and getting ads for pregnancy related stuff. I could go on with other examples, but you get the gist. Virgin's action could end up causing a lot of people a *lot* of problems.

As for all this "opt out" nonsense, I am not a lawyer, but that would appear to be a clear violation of the Data Protection Act 1998 which requires that users be offered the chance to opt *in* to (not out of) schemes such as these.

Simply put, this system stinks.
Can you imagine - expectant mother spends 9 months looking forward to their baby, researching, buying. Poor woman has a still born and gets ads for the next year or so offering baby products.

You're right Stu, it stinks.
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Old 25-02-2008, 14:58   #216
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by petersamson View Post
There will be a link to phorm to opt out completely and they will ask you to visit it on all devices that can access the internet so one users data doesn't cross over. There will be another link to contact a customer service operative for larger organisations on a case by case basis where they will block an IP from all adverts that are remote third party risky, but push through those from respected advertisers without using keywords, so a safe advert policy. Along with a requirement to renew this every 6 months say on a rolling basis.
The issue is not about blocking the ads from getting through. The issue is them storing and collecting the surfing data in the first place.

And, I don't see why I should have to deal with Phorm. I am not a customer of Phorm, I don't have any relationship or contract with them.

It seems like Virgin Media are going to collect and send the data to Phorm regardless, but you'll be able to ask them not to target ads at you. That's not good enough.

The trail of URLs I visit in a day are easily analysed to determine my identity. This has already happened to AOL customers when AOL leaked their search queries.

It is up to Virgin Media to allow people to opt-in to this system, and, if they don't, to not collect the data in the first place.
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Old 25-02-2008, 15:08   #217
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

El Reg has finally gotten hold of this one too.
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Old 25-02-2008, 16:30   #218
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

VM might think they are going to make money out of this but i seriously urge them to rethink. I am not opting out of anything as i shouldn't be in anything in the first damn place. As for how it is going to work i don't give a damn as i didn't ask for it i don't want it and i shouldn't have to inconvinience myself dealing with it. VM seriously think about this or your going to lose a lot of customers.
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Old 25-02-2008, 16:38   #219
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
VM might think they are going to make money out of this but i seriously urge them to rethink. I am not opting out of anything as i shouldn't be in anything in the first damn place. As for how it is going to work i don't give a damn as i didn't ask for it i don't want it and i shouldn't have to inconvinience myself dealing with it. VM seriously think about this or your going to lose a lot of customers.
Well, lets see what they plan to do, opt-in or opt-out. I don't think customer losses will be an issue, simply because there will be few places to go if this does go forward. What they may see though is a significant reduction in portal hits....THAT could potentially hit their advertising revenues.

Did you notice how much BT could make in 2010?
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Old 25-02-2008, 17:10   #220
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Yeah i noticed and know damn well thats the reason this is being done. But the fact remains no one should have to "opt out" of whatever little scheme they want to try.
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Old 25-02-2008, 17:38   #221
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
Yeah i noticed and know damn well thats the reason this is being done. But the fact remains no one should have to "opt out" of whatever little scheme they want to try.

£££££Â £Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£ ‚£ will ensure that you WILL have to op out of there SPYWARE system
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Old 25-02-2008, 17:55   #222
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Sadly yes and i don't trust them for one minute to abide by any opt out i mean not being funny how the hell will we know if our surfing is still being harvested. That's the crux here and VM have put that doubt into my head massively affecting how i will regard VM in future job well done there on me at least.
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Old 26-02-2008, 15:54   #223
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Spoke to The Information Commissioner's Office - http://www.ico.gov.uk/ and they say they are 'looking into it'. You can ring them on 01625 545 745, so at least the powers at be are aware of current events.

So until this story fully unfolds my advice would be to use TOR - http://www.torproject.org/ and take back the some of that privacy and anonymity that our ISP's have so 'kindly' tossed into the bin!
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Old 26-02-2008, 16:29   #224
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Hi All,
I see one or two comments about opting out. Where is it said there will be any options.Just asking a question because those of us who have been with ntl aka VirginMedia for any length of time know that any give and take is always to their advantage. Plus I saw somewhere that it wasn,t just VirginMedia talking to this company, BT were there as well.
George.

---------- Post added at 16:29 ---------- Previous post was at 16:19 ----------

Sorry,
I,ve just read the article on The Register and it answers the question I was asking. It is a disgrace really. It just means we will have to watch just what is happening more in the future.
As I say, sorry I should have read more closely.
George.
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Old 26-02-2008, 16:33   #225
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Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal [Updated: See Post No. 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by none View Post
Spoke to The Information Commissioner's Office - http://www.ico.gov.uk/ and they say they are 'looking into it'. You can ring them on 01625 545 745, so at least the powers at be are aware of current events.
Thanks for this - Keep us updated with any information you get back from them, infact if more people phoned up to complain the better.
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