President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by pip08456

From a moral perspective is it right to hold a country to ransom for a political end?

So, you'd prefer a North Korean style set-up where every politician votes as instructed?

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Mr Banana

Why for a political end? They are human beings that they are trying to protect.

What about the 8.9 million children on chips? That funding stopped yesterday.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

So, you'd prefer a North Korean style set-up where every politician votes as instructed?

Where does NK come into it?

Originally Posted by pip08456

What about the 8.9 million children on chips? That funding stopped yesterday.



Where does NK come into it?

Looks like the Republicans offered an extension

Republicans added a sweetener to the bill in the form of a six-year extension to a health insurance programme for children in lower-income families.
But Democrats want this programme extended permanently.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

So, you'd prefer a North Korean style set-up where every politician votes as instructed?

That makes absolutely no sense. North Korea doesn’t do democracy or votes on anything of any kind, there is no parliamentary democracy in North Korea. It’s one order from above, pure Dictatorship from Kim Jong Un.

---------- Post added at 12:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr Banana

Looks like the Republicans offered an extension

Republicans added a sweetener to the bill in the form of a six-year extension to a health insurance programme for children in lower-income families.
But Democrats want this programme extended permanently.

There was actually no opposition to anything in the bill, it passed in the House but the Senate Democrats, took advantage of the fact that it needed 60 votes to pass. Democrats wanted DACA protections, which is a non budgetary issue.

If this was a majority ruling, Republicans could have passed this, they did have some Democrat support, about 3 or 4 Democrat Senators, including the new Alabama Dem, Doug Jones breaking ranks with Hardline Democrats who oppose everything.

It’s a serious Dysfuction of Government.

Originally Posted by Mr Banana

Is that real or edited?

It’s real - which is why I included the video clip.

Let’s be honest here the Democrats are doing this because they see a political advantage and their base wants a deal on immigration. Personally I think Trump gets the wall and the Democrats get DACA and everyone is happy.

Originally Posted by pip08456

What about the 8.9 million children on chips? That funding stopped yesterday.



Where does NK come into it?

There is funding for it until March, because it had previously been given a 6 month extension - this could have been passed as a stand alone bill at any time, just like DACA, which was stopped by an Executive Order in September.

Anyway, as Trump previously stated on Fox and Friends

“Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top,” Trump said. “I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead.”

He said that further down in history, “when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time.”

“They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington,” Trump said.

“So I really think the pressure is on the president,” he added.

---------- Post added at 12:39 ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

That makes absolutely no sense. North Korea doesn’t do democracy or votes on anything of any kind, there is no parliamentary democracy in North Korea. It’s one order from above, pure Dictatorship from Kim Jong Un.

---------- Post added at 12:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 ----------



There was actually no opposition to anything in the bill, it passed in the House but the Senate Democrats, took advantage of the fact that it needed 60 votes to pass. Democrats wanted DACA protections, which is a non budgetary issue.

If this was a majority ruling, Republicans could have passed this, they did have some Democrat support, about 3 or 4 Democrat Senators, including the new Alabama Dem, Doug Jones breaking ranks with Hardline Democrats who oppose everything.

It’s a serious Dysfuction of Government.

4 Republicans also voted against it, and John McCain didn’t vote.

Sens. Lindsey Graham (SC), Rand Paul (KY), Mike Lee (UT), and Jeff Flake (AZ).

Originally Posted by Hugh

4 Republicans also voted against it, and John McCain didn’t vote.

Sens. Lindsey Graham (SC), Rand Paul (KY), Mike Lee (UT), and Jeff Flake (AZ).

I know, I am well aware of what happened because I was watching the Senate floor and commentary.

---------- Post added at 14:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:07 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Let’s be honest here the Democrats are doing this because they see a political advantage and their base wants a deal on immigration. Personally I think Trump gets the wall and the Democrats get DACA and everyone is happy.

DACA needs to be legislated, in it's current form, it is unconstitutional and quite rightly, Trump and the Republicans are contesting it. This is not about any moral test, it's about upholding the Constitution, which all those right up to the President, have sworn to protect, people cannot pick and choose which laws to ignore. As I pointed out in an earlier post, President Obama did not have legislative authority to rescind or freeze laws, which is exactly what DACA does.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

I know, I am well aware of what happened because I was watching the Senate floor and commentary..

Don't you have something better to do on a weekend Mick? I went to the football, we lost, and ref needs specs, but it was more entertaining than the Senate floor

You play football at 5 am in the morning ?

Originally Posted by Mick

I know, I am well aware of what happened because I was watching the Senate floor and commentary.

---------- Post added at 14:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:07 ----------



DACA needs to be legislated, in it's current form, it is unconstitutional and quite rightly, Trump and the Republicans are contesting it. This is not about any moral test, it's about upholding the Constitution, which all those right up to the President, have sworn to protect, people cannot pick and choose which laws to ignore. As I pointed out in an earlier post, President Obama did not have legislative authority to rescind or freeze laws, which is exactly what DACA does.

Recap of how we got here:
1 Trump rescinds DACA, demands Congress act within 6 months
2 Senate forms bipartisan talks on DACA
3 Trump promises to sign whatever group comes up with
4 Group reaches bipartisan deal
5 Trump does 180, rejects deal, leaving DACA kids to be deported

Trump spoke to “Fox & Friends” in 2013 and was asked who would be fired during a government shutdown, as shown in a clip posted by "Morning Joe."

“Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top,” Trump said. “I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead.”
He said that further down in history, “when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time.”

“They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington,” Trump said.

“So I really think the pressure is on the president,” he added.

Originally Posted by Hugh

Recap of how we got here:
1 Trump rescinds DACA, demands Congress act within 6 months
2 Senate forms bipartisan talks on DACA
3 Trump promises to sign whatever group comes up with
4 Group reaches bipartisan deal
5 Trump does 180, rejects deal, leaving DACA kids to be deported

Your recap is just not accurate and shows a lack of insight in your quick dash to have another pop at Trump.

Trump kicked DACA in September 2017, down the road to Congress for it to be replaced with a proper legislative bill that is debated on and discussed and voted on, then DACA is Constitutionally sound.

Last week, President Trump and 16 Senators met up for a bipartisan congressional meeting on immigration, in the cabinet room in the White House, in which the scope of the meeting, DACA was discussed. DACA was not the sole reason for the meeting.

So to cut a long story short...the actual reason we are here with this current Government shutdown is because the Democrats have tried to hijack the new Budget by including a non-Budgetary item as leverage to have all parties avoid a government shutdown, they damn well know that even with the fact that GOP have majority in all three branches of government, it still requires a super majority of 60 in the Senate to pass the new Budget, so they will not agree to pass new budget unless DACA is protected.

Trump and Republicans are not prepared to negotiate and refusing to be held hostage over illegal immigration or DACA. So there is now a Stalemate.

There has not been a DACA Bill debated on to sign or Veto by Trump, so it's kinda of impossible for him to have done a 180 on a non-existent DACA Bill.

6 months from September 2017, is March 2018. Congress has over a month to get DACA legislated.

There is the real risk here that Trump may not be able to extend the DACA program further, even if he wanted to sign a new Executive Order that granted further protections, because it has not yet been properly legislated on and as has been pointed out several times now, President Obama, far exceeded his Executive overreach when he implemented DACA and with the fact that there is currently 10 States and their attorneys generals, threatening a lawsuit against it because, as it stands, it is unconstitutional.

Meanwhile while there is a blame game going on, I actually agree with what Damien said earlier on that no-one comes out on top here, real people are not getting paid, especially those on the front line and in first response roles.

Democrat Minority leader, Nancy Pelosi was apparently out celebrating the shutdown tonight with other House Democrats, bearing in mind the shutdown is currently affecting 9 Million kids with CHIP Insurance, real funding is running out here.

So let's get this straight here, Democrats do not oppose anything that is in the Budget, they are, most of them refusing to vote on it because it does not include DACA protections, so in essence, they are putting Illegal Immigration first over their own American citizens. This will not go down well come Mid terms later this year.

I am pleased to see that the newly elected Democratic Senator, Doug Jones did not side with the hard line obstructionist Democrats, who oppose absolutely everything because they cannot get over their prize star, Hillary losing an election.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Mick

I am pleased to see that the newly elected Democratic Senator, Doug Jones did not side with the hard line obstructionist Democrats, who oppose absolutely everything because they cannot get over their prize star, Hillary losing an election.

They're following the republican play book then if they are, wasn't it Mitch McConnell who said he was not only not going to work with Obama but obstruct him at every opportunity (or words to that effect).

I found this opinion piece titled reap what they sow quite interesting to

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-what-they-sow

It's fair to say, they obstruct each other and have been doing so for years, it's a big problem with having a two-party system in government.

While the Media may dis Trump for having around a 40% Approval rating, Congress itself has only an 18% approval rating, which highlights how the legislative branch is dysfunctional, because where they are at now, in the middle of another government shutdown.