Britain outside the EU

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

But do we really want to win?

I'm pretty sure we don't. The winner has to host the following year's contest at huge expense. This became a major problem for Ireland in the 1990s because they kept winning.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I only watched it for the Schadenfreude. Nevertheless, this is a serious matter for which consequences are necessary!

I think musically we have nothing in common, I watched and could not believe how bad most of it was, most of europe seems to have finally made it into the 1980s,the winners looked like a mixed up suzi quatro tribute band .
summing up it was 99% awful but i was very impressed by Serbia's entry

top marks to Graham Norton

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

I think musically we have nothing in common, I watched and could not believe how bad most of it was, most of europe seems to have finally made it into the 1980s,the winners looked like a mixed up suzi quatro tribute band .
summing up it was 99% awful but i was very impressed by Serbia's entry

top marks to Graham Norton

It's worth watching for Graham Norton's wit alone!

I do wish they would cut countries off that waffle when giving us their scores - the show's long enough as it is without this time-wasting!

From the recent House of Commons European Scrutiny Committee, Oral evidence: The UK's new relationship with the EU, HC 122, on Monday 17 May 2021

https://committees.parliament.uk/ora...nce/2184/html/ - questions 68-72

Q68 Richard Drax: I do not disagree, necessarily, with gunboat diplomacy, as we showed just the other day. However, that is not going to help relations between us and the EU in the longer term, is it? Have they realised we have gone yet, or are you still having to explain that fact to them? Are you noticing good will—better will—towards us for the future? That is going to be key. How are you getting on with bilateral agreements with other EU members?

Lord Frost: They are still getting used to it. In fact, I think the EU ambassador said something like that two or three weeks ago—that they are still coming to terms with the UK’s departure—so there is a process to be gone through here. People are getting used to the different processes and the different arrangements that apply. We do not choose gunboat diplomacy, but obviously we were reacting to a demonstration that could have caused severe practical problems for Jersey. It did not cause any problems, and I like to think that our naval presence was part of that. It is not the first resort, obviously, but we have to be able to stand up for our fishermen, and for the Channel Islands in that particular case. We have to wait and see this develop. We have to get back to normal and, to a large extent, that is happening in terms of atmospherics, but I think there is a little way to go yet.

Q69 Richard Drax: So you are confident that in the months and years ahead, business can resume as normally as possible, unhindered by EU intransigence. You think that will happen.

Lord Frost: I do not know about “will happen”: I think it definitely can happen. As I said, there is a lot of pragmatism. Everybody wants trade to continue in as free-flowing a way as it possibly can in the new arrangements. There is definitely a large current of opinion in the EU and member states that wants that to happen. I think there are people who see Brexit as a bit of a zero-sum game and want us to face difficulties, but I like to think that those will not be the dominant opinions and things will settle down in a fairly pragmatic way as we move forward. We will see.

Q70 Richard Drax: Any movement on the bilateral agreements with individual EU states that I asked you about? How are you getting on with them?

Lord Frost: In any particular field?

Q71 Richard Drax: In any particular field. Obviously you are exploring bilateral agreements with separate EU countries. Are you having any success in those?

Lord Frost: There are some areas in EU competence where we are looking at bilateral agreements. For example, one area we would like to do bilateral agreements in is returns agreements on asylum seekers. That discussion is just beginning. The problem we face in that and some other areas is that although some member states probably do want to do bilateral agreements, that is not necessarily how the Commission sees it and, even if it is still a member state competence, the Commission has ways of influencing that. So we are just picking it up and I would say there is some way to go in that.

Q72 Richard Drax: Oh dear. Actually, part of my question was whether individual EU states were able to do bilateral agreements. I think you are hinting that perhaps they cannot with Big Brother sitting on their shoulder. That is a shame, but hopefully in the months and years ahead that will disappear—I am sure it will under your leadership, Lord Frost.

Lord Frost: I hope that they will see that there is an interest in constructive and collaborative relationships with us. I would expect that to happen.

Richard Drax: Thank you very much.

https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/po...g/index_en.htm

What is trade policy?

The European Union manages its trade and investment relations with non-EU countries through its trade and investment policy.

Trade outside the EU is an exclusive responsibility of the EU, rather than the national governments of member countries. This means the EU institutions make laws on trade matters, negotiate and conclude international trade agreements.

The EU's responsibilities cover:

- trade in goods and services
- the commercial aspects of intellectual property, such as patents
- public procurement
- foreign direct investment

Article 207 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union sets out the rules on EU trade policy.

Quite worrying that a member of the House of Commons European Scrutiny Committee and the Minister whose responsibilities include oversight of the effective conduct of EU related business with the EU and its Member States, don’t seem to know that individual EU countries can’t negotiate bilateral trade deals…

However, the EU are on to them….

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...667491841.html

2/ President @EmmanuelMacron asked for EU-UK relations to be put on the agenda because of French complaints over fishing licences and the Jersey flare up; leaders agreed, partly as it was the first time the European Council will have addressed relations since the TCA was ratified
3/ However, there is growing concern that the UK is attempting to bilateralise relations with individual member states, so EU leaders will put out a strong message of maintaining unity and protecting the integrity of the single market
4/ The TCA does permit bilateral arrangements in a number of limited areas, eg aviation, where member states can "top up" what the TCA provides for in avaition. However one diplomat says there is concern at the "onslaught" of UK attempts to coax member states into bilateral deals
5/ Member states are concerned that this will start to undermine the single market, if bilateral arrangements start to get out of hand. Diplomats say the UK is pushing for bilateral deals in youth mobility, professional qualifications, social security
6/ While some of this is permitted under the TCA, EU leaders will ask that national capitals inform the European Commission before engaging in bilateralism, and the Commission will inform all other member states
7/ The Commission will have to assess whether or not what a member state intends to do with the UK is compatible with the TCA and single market obligations.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

From the recent House of Commons European Scrutiny Committee, Oral evidence: The UK's new relationship with the EU, HC 122, on Monday 17 May 2021

https://committees.parliament.uk/ora...nce/2184/html/ - questions 68-72

https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/po...g/index_en.htm

Quite worrying that a member of the House of Commons European Scrutiny Committee and the Minister whose responsibilities include oversight of the effective conduct of EU related business with the EU and its Member States, don’t seem to know that individual EU countries can’t negotiate bilateral trade deals…

However, the EU are on to them….

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...667491841.html

Quite worrying that you are attributing "trade deals" to Drax. He neither said nor implied anything of the sort. Indeed, Frost was clear about the scope of his knowledge. In the case quoted below, I read it that he want some areas that are exclusively reserved to the EU to be delegated to countries.

Q71 Richard Drax: In any particular field. Obviously you are exploring bilateral agreements with separate EU countries. Are you having any success in those?

Lord Frost: There are some areas in EU competence where we are looking at bilateral agreements. For example, one area we would like to do bilateral agreements in is returns agreements on asylum seekers. That discussion is just beginning. The problem we face in that and some other areas is that although some member states probably do want to do bilateral agreements, that is not necessarily how the Commission sees it and, even if it is still a member state competence, the Commission has ways of influencing that. So we are just picking it up and I would say there is some way to go in that.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Quite worrying that you are attributing "trade deals" to Drax. He neither said nor implied anything of the sort. Indeed, Frost was clear about the scope of his knowledge. In the case quoted below, I read it that he want some areas that are exclusively reserved to the EU to be delegated to countries.

But Hugh's agenda is that they would be bilateral trade deals, he's a remainer. What do you expect?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by pip08456

But Hugh's agenda is that they would be bilateral trade deals, he's a remainer. What do you expect?

He's very annoying and that's what I expect.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

He's very annoying and that's what I expect.

I shall try to live up to your expectations…

---------- Post added at 17:59 ---------- Previous post was at 17:57 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Quite worrying that you are attributing "trade deals" to Drax. He neither said nor implied anything of the sort. Indeed, Frost was clear about the scope of his knowledge. In the case quoted below, I read it that he want some areas that are exclusively reserved to the EU to be delegated to countries.

Q69 Richard Drax: So you are confident that in the months and years ahead, business can resume as normally as possible, unhindered by EU intransigence. You think that will happen.

Lord Frost: I do not know about “will happen”: I think it definitely can happen. As I said, there is a lot of pragmatism. Everybody wants trade to continue in as free-flowing a way as it possibly can in the new arrangements. There is definitely a large current of opinion in the EU and member states that wants that to happen. I think there are people who see Brexit as a bit of a zero-sum game and want us to face difficulties, but I like to think that those will not be the dominant opinions and things will settle down in a fairly pragmatic way as we move forward. We will see.

Q70 Richard Drax: Any movement on the bilateral agreements with individual EU states that I asked you about? How are you getting on with them?

Lord Frost: In any particular field?

Q71 Richard Drax: In any particular field. Obviously you are exploring bilateral agreements with separate EU countries. Are you having any success in those?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I shall try to live up to your expectations…

---------- Post added at 17:59 ---------- Previous post was at 17:57 ----------

You've got that totally wrong. In q70/71 Drax had moved on from trade. You're doing well.

Originally Posted by pip08456

But Hugh's agenda is that they would be bilateral trade deals, he's a remainer. What do you expect?

I refer you to my post of 14/12/2019

Originally Posted by Hugh

We’re all leavers now...

It’s not an assumption, but since we have stated to the other side in the negotiations that it must be completed by a certain arbitrary date, it gives them leverage - no one willingly enters into a bad deal, but if the deal is less favourable than what we have now, it’s a bad deal.

I want a good deal, as that’s what’s best for our country,

---------- Post added at 18:06 ---------- Previous post was at 18:06 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You've got that totally wrong. In q70/71 Drax had moved on from trade. You're doing well.

Sure, he did…

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I refer you to my post of 14/12/2019

---------- Post added at 18:06 ---------- Previous post was at 18:06 ----------

Sure, he did…

As Pip said, Hugh's a Remainer. He was playing with words in 2019 and is still doing that.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I refer you to my post of 14/12/2019

You forgot to reproduce Lord Frost's answer:

Lord Frost: There are some areas in EU competence where we are looking at bilateral agreements. For example, one area we would like to do bilateral agreements in is returns agreements on asylum seekers. That discussion is just beginning. The problem we face in that and some other areas is that although some member states probably do want to do bilateral agreements, that is not necessarily how the Commission sees it and, even if it is still a member state competence, the Commission has ways of influencing that. So we are just picking it up and I would say there is some way to go in that.

I'm sure that was an accidental omission, Hugh.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You forgot to reproduce Lord Frost's answer:

Lord Frost: There are some areas in EU competence where we are looking at bilateral agreements. For example, one area we would like to do bilateral agreements in is returns agreements on asylum seekers. That discussion is just beginning. The problem we face in that and some other areas is that although some member states probably do want to do bilateral agreements, that is not necessarily how the Commission sees it and, even if it is still a member state competence, the Commission has ways of influencing that. So we are just picking it up and I would say there is some way to go in that.

I'm sure that was an accidental omission, Hugh.

Did you have to give him that card to play, OB?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Did you have to give him that card to play, OB?

The point being, of course, that asylum seekers are nothing to do with trade, Seph.

[EDIT] Just noticed your red text!

[Taf]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

i was very impressed by Serbia's entry :naughty

https://eurovision.tv/video/hurrican...urovision-2021