Contactless cards and the future of cash

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Yeah, I use my phone now for payments rather than card now as I need to open my (Android) phone with a fingerprint. Definitely feels more secure than just tapping a card...

I'm surprised that something like fingerprints aren't now used instead of a PIN on cashpoint machines.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I'm surprised that something like fingerprints aren't now used instead of a PIN on cashpoint machines.

Your biometric data would have to be securely collected by your card issuer at the time you open the account. It’s not impossible to do but it would complicate the process a lot. ATMs would have to be updated and then card processing companies would come under pressure to replace every card reader with one that can read a thumb print. That would cost a fortune.

Most Americans don’t even have chip and pin yet, which is a pain in the ass when you’re trying to take a card payment off them with one of the small business friendly card readers out there, that work in conjunction with your phone or iPad because you end up asking them to sign your screen, and the result is illegible and rarely comparable with whatever’s on the back of their card.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I'm surprised that something like fingerprints aren't now used instead of a PIN on cashpoint machines.

You mean like this

https://www.rbs.com/rbs/news/2019/10...edit-card.html

NatWest first UK bank to unveil biometric credit card
The first biometric fingerprint credit card issued by a UK bank begins its three-month national trial today. NatWest is piloting cutting-edge, biometric fingerprint technology with 150 customers, in partnership with Mastercard and Gemalto, a Thales Company.

The bank has previously piloted biometric debit cards, but this will be the first-time credit cards have been issued. The biometric credit cards will offer contactless payments using fingerprint verification for transactions up to £100, an increase on the current £30 limit.

As well as retaining contactless functionality, the fully integrated card can be used as normal in ATMs and for online shopping. Additionally, there are no hardware changes needed to accept biometric cards, so cardholders can use them at existing contactless and Chip and PIN terminals. The card is powered through the card terminal and when a customer presents a card, a green light on the card indicates that the fingerprint has been matched successfully.

[45rpm]

Who would be crying If cash was abolished? Answer: all the bad guys. People smugglers, drug dealers, thieves and cheats.
A huge amount of crime would be switched off overnight, robberies, muggings, car theft.
Ok, a lot of honest folk like you and me would be inconvenienced but we would manage.
For sure, some of the very elderly might struggle at first but that is also manageable.

We’ve all done it, paid cash for Joe to do a cheap job on the house or car. Although it’s not a bad crime, it’s still naughty. Also, when the work is no good, it can be impossible to get recompense.
I think society would be far richer if we phased out cash. Starting with the £50 note; its introduction (IMhO) was a big mistake.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by 45rpm

Who would be crying If cash was abolished? Answer: all the bad guys. People smugglers, drug dealers, thieves and cheats.
A huge amount of crime would be switched off overnight, robberies, muggings, car theft.
Ok, a lot of honest folk like you and me would be inconvenienced but we would manage.
For sure, some of the very elderly might struggle at first but that is also manageable.

We’ve all done it, paid cash for Joe to do a cheap job on the house or car. Although it’s not a bad crime, it’s still naughty. Also, when the work is no good, it can be impossible to get recompense.
I think society would be far richer if we phased out cash. Starting with the £50 note; its introduction (IMhO) was a big mistake.

True, though muggings would still happen for mobile phones etc.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

True, though muggings would still happen for mobile phones etc.

Most modern smartphones can be "bricked" remotely, or even traced through a "find my phone" app.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Most modern smartphones can be "bricked" remotely, or even traced through a "find my phone" app.

Plus what would they do with it? I assume that they sell them on for cash these days.

I read that the system of blocking mobiles by something to do with the IMEI number can be circumvented by thieves:

https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/...at+do+I+do+now

Is there some newer technology that improve upon this?

[tweetiepooh]

Originally Posted by 45rpm

Who would be crying If cash was abolished? Answer: all the bad guys. People smugglers, drug dealers, thieves and cheats.
A huge amount of crime would be switched off overnight, robberies, muggings, car theft.
Ok, a lot of honest folk like you and me would be inconvenienced but we would manage.
For sure, some of the very elderly might struggle at first but that is also manageable.

We’ve all done it, paid cash for Joe to do a cheap job on the house or car. Although it’s not a bad crime, it’s still naughty. Also, when the work is no good, it can be impossible to get recompense.
I think society would be far richer if we phased out cash. Starting with the £50 note; its introduction (IMhO) was a big mistake.

As in my earlier post - yes cashless could block some of the low level criminal types (the high flyers would find ways and crime would move even more to the cyber space arena). But what if a future regime declares you or your social/racial/sexual/religious/etc group "bad guys"? What if the "good guys" are the one that agree to vote/follow/believe/accept what the rulers dictate? Yes you can vote electronically for the opposition, that's you democratic right as it is ours to control the spending of subversives out to destroy our wonderful way of life.



Cash prevents or at least reduces this risk as people can still trade without that trade being logged or controlled. It's always worth asking "what if?".



And no I haven't knowingly paid cash to avoid VAT/taxes other that very small jobs less than £20 or so and the last few of those the trader wasn't VAT registered.

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

As in my earlier post - yes cashless could block some of the low level criminal types (the high flyers would find ways and crime would move even more to the cyber space arena). But what if a future regime declares you or your social/racial/sexual/religious/etc group "bad guys"? What if the "good guys" are the one that agree to vote/follow/believe/accept what the rulers dictate? Yes you can vote electronically for the opposition, that's you democratic right as it is ours to control the spending of subversives out to destroy our wonderful way of life.



Cash prevents or at least reduces this risk as people can still trade without that trade being logged or controlled. It's always worth asking "what if?".



And no I haven't knowingly paid cash to avoid VAT/taxes other that very small jobs less than £20 or so and the last few of those the trader wasn't VAT registered.

These are pretty big 'ifs.' Even in a society entirely without card payments, your cash has to go in and out of the bank unless you're going to keep it all in your mattress. The last place I saw giving out wages in little brown envelopes on a Friday was a shop my missus worked in part time when we were first married, 20 odd years ago. These days almost everyone is paid electronically and you have to transact with a bank to get the cash in your hand. Almost every domestic service provider you deal with will resist cash payments very hard indeed, more or less compelling you to use the electronic banking system for online payment or direct debit, which uses electronic payment for every transaction even though you only authorise it once to start it off. There are a multitude of opportunities for an oppressive regime to control you by interfering with this system whether or not you pay with cash in your corner shop.

As a side note, I would suggest putting a little less faith in eschatological readings of Revelation that hang on 19th century American hysteria around the tribulation. Such things have become wildly popular in Charismatic circles but they were not the orthodox belief of the church for most of the last two millennia. We are not on the cusp of having beastly payment barcodes stuck to our wrists or foreheads.

[Carth]

I use cash whenever I can, call me an old farty luddite, I care not a jot

I find cash very useful around birthdays, anniversaries etc, the wife knows I've taken £200 from the account, but has no idea where I've spent it. If I use card payments, she knows where I've spent the money and probably what on.

oh, and I will gladly pay (for example) a plumber £20 cash to replace a tap instead of £40 'through the books'. This may be due to the fact I am unable to claim tax relief on my 3rd London residence, for a fancy structure to house my ducks in the duck pond, and for the 4 members of close family I claim are personal secretaries

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Carth

I use cash whenever I can, call me an old farty luddite, I care not a jot

I find cash very useful around birthdays, anniversaries etc, the wife knows I've taken £200 from the account, but has no idea where I've spent it. If I use card payments, she knows where I've spent the money and probably what on.

oh, and I will gladly pay (for example) a plumber £20 cash to replace a tap instead of £40 'through the books'. This may be due to the fact I am unable to claim tax relief on my 3rd London residence, for a fancy structure to house my ducks in the duck pond, and for the 4 members of close family I claim are personal secretaries

Went shopping this morning for the first time with no cash in my wallet, I put it in a birthday card the other day, I always pay by card but usually carry cash with me just in case the card machine is on the blink.

[Ken W]

I went to a shop and they wanted cash only no cards

[45rpm]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

Cash prevents or at least reduces this risk as people can still trade without that trade being logged or controlled. It's always worth asking "what if?".

Perhaps you could help me (us?) understand and list even one thing that you have purchased that you would want to keep private. In other words, what is it that you buy that would embarrass you if the authorities knew?

As for controlling your spend - I am totally lost.

Sure, if you're dealing in dodgy cat-converters, I can understand your point. Otherwise, please explain. Thanks.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

I always pay by card but usually carry cash with me just in case the card machine is on the blink.

Likewise. I carry enough cash to cover just in case. I only have the one debit card and no credit cards.

[Sephiroth]

I carry a load of cash because it's been there for the past year.