Britain outside the EU

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Oh Andrew. Is the EU not an unfriendly, nasty, revengeful organisation using the letter of the treaty to royally screw us over?

By asking us to "enter into good faith consultations in the Joint Committee, the body which oversees the protocol, with the aim of reaching a mutually agreed solution "?

First "intransigence" and now "royally screw us over" - can I suggest you return your etymological reference source and ask for a refund?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Oh Andrew. Is the EU not an unfriendly, nasty, revengeful organisation using the letter of the treaty to royally screw us over?

No. The West does not need such treaty-breaking, it only benefits the country's genuine enemies.

David Frost needs to cease playing his Perfidious Albion role and engage with the agreed mechanisms if wants an extension. That's what he negotiated in December.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

By asking us to "enter into good faith consultations in the Joint Committee, the body which oversees the protocol, with the aim of reaching a mutually agreed solution "?

First "intransigence" and now "royally screw us over" - can I suggest you return your etymological reference source and ask for a refund?

No you can't. You have a warped attitude to the EU - or else you're just trying to wind me up or both.

Not trying to wind you up - just pointing out your ‘interesting" interpretation of some words.

Speaking of warped attitudes to the EU, have you perhaps been in the vicinity of a looking glass recently?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56415197

Ford has announced that diesel engines for a new generation of its Transit Custom van will be built at its factory in Dagenham.
The company says the move will help to safeguard jobs at the site, which currently employs 1,900 people.
The engines will be exported to Turkey, where the vans themselves will be assembled by Ford's local joint venture company, Ford Otosan.

#DespiteBrexit

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Not trying to wind you up - just pointing out your ‘interesting" interpretation of some words.

Speaking of warped attitudes to the EU, have you perhaps been in the vicinity of a looking glass recently?

Ignoring the nastiness coming through in your remark, the EU as an institution is self-demonstrably every bit as bad as I, and others you don't pick on, describe.

They are clearly intent on punishing the UK and offering none of the leeway we have requested.

But if you have a treaty, any "leeway" should be under the terms of the treaty, not unilateral action (by either side) - otherwise, what is the point of (any) treaty?

I’m sorry if you found my humour "nasty", it was not intended to be - I was just pointing out that you tend to have an extremely partisan view on these things, and trying to do so in a light-hearted manner.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Ignoring the nastiness coming through in your remark, the EU as an institution is self-demonstrably every bit as bad as I, and others you don't pick on, describe.

They are clearly intent on punishing the UK and offering none of the leeway we have requested.

I'm sure that if the UK had requested it, an arrangement could have been found. Instead, David Frost has donned BoJo's Perfidious Albion cap and proceeded with intent to breach an international treaty.

It's a flawed strategy as we need to build our goodwill to try and add to the Brexit deal eg to make it easier for our musicians to tour Europe, a sector where we enjoy a balance of trade surplus.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

But if you have a treaty, any "leeway" should be under the terms of the treaty, not unilateral action (by either side) - otherwise, what is the point of (any) treaty?

I’m sorry if you found my humour "nasty", it was not intended to be - I was just pointing out that you tend to have an extremely partisan view on these things, and trying to do so in a light-hearted manner.

Yeah - right.

I'm sure that a lot of people (52% at least) would agree with me that notwithstanding the terms of a treaty, if real difficulty arises when the treaty is implemented then the other side could be more sympathetic and helpful than they are being. Friendship obviously counts for nothing because they have no friendship for the UK - only intent on punishment.

You surely can see that.



---------- Post added at 18:32 ---------- Previous post was at 18:28 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I'm sure that if the UK had requested it, an arrangement could have been found. Instead, David Frost has donned BoJo's Perfidious Albion cap and proceeded with intent to breach an international treaty.

It's a flawed strategy as we need to build our goodwill to try and add to the Brexit deal eg to make it easier for our musicians to tour Europe, a sector where we enjoy a balance of trade surplus.

Are you sure about that, Andrew? Very little if anything has come out as to what Frost has been doing and the outcome of any talks he's held with the EC.

On your point about making it easier for our musicians to tour, etc - it's a worthy aim but I wouldn't bet on the EU giving us any concession in that regard. But musicians can wait while we get the real difficulties with the NI Protocol sorted out. After all, we are only asking for an extewnded grace period so that we can eventually comply with the treaty.

We didn’t ask for anything - we told them we were doing it.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

We didn’t ask for anything - we told them we were doing it.

My understanding is that we asked them through channels and they said no.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

My understanding is that we asked them through channels and they said no.

Any evidence to back that up, as no one in HMG has stated that?

There were discussions in early February about these things, but the talks were ongoing until the U.K. unilaterally said they were happening.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-brexit-checks

In a joint statement Gove and Šefčovic said: “After a constructive discussion amongst all parties [it was] concluded that the UK and the EU would immediately work intensively to find solutions to outstanding issues … [Gove and Šefčovič] will keep in close contact as this work progresses, and will meet again next week in London.”

The meeting came after Boris Johnson accused the EU of appearing to “cast doubt” on the Good Friday agreement, with last week’s decision to invoke article 16.

It is understood that a new specialised committee, mandated under the Brexit deal, will be quickly set up and will convene in the next two weeks to thrash out a solution. A signoff is expected at a meeting of the UK-EU joint committee, which Gove and Šefčovič pencilled in for mid-March.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

My understanding is that we asked them through channels and they said no.

The channels were not used, the UK just sent out a press release. As well as threatening court action which it hopes won't be used, the EU has requested that the appropriate channels are used in a side letter to David Frost.

It requests that the UK enters into good faith consultations in the Joint Committee, with the aim of reaching a mutually agreed solution by the end of this month.

David Frost's aggressive stance is in marked contrast to Michael Gove's more constructive approach. Perhaps it's designed to keep the ERG happy, but it looks unlikely to help us build on the foundations of the Brexit deal which we need to do.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56381046

[Sephiroth]

We don't know what went on behind the scens.

Of course, I can't rule out that it was another Boris trick like the one he tried last year to sort of scare them intro submission.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

We don't know what went on behind the scens.

Of course, I can't rule out that it was another Boris trick like the one he tried last year to sort of scare them intro submission.

If BoJo or David Frost had wanted to paint the UK's actions in a better light, I'm sure they would have claimed that their overtures were rebuffed. They haven't.

They've also not disputed the statement that "The UK resorted to this unilateral action without any discussion or consultation with the EU side in the bodies established by the Withdrawal Agreement."