Britain outside the EU

[noel43]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Slightly unfair to criticise the Loganair flight for being cancelled due to low passenger numbers whilst we're in a national lockdown....

There's been a lot of changes in Teesside in the fourteen years I've lived here, it's slowly improving in many ways. But, significantly more is needed. the freeport & wind turbine stuff is a great start.

The loss of the once hoped for snow centre (bridge to nowhere) is very unfortunate & I do wish they would stop with all the plans to build office blocks everywhere...

I agree with you on that, enough empty office space in town.
I've lived in Gusborough all my life, I worked at ICI, my brother at BS most of our industries are now gone. Don't think the freeport will come to frution, sorry thats my opinion.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Whilst I'm all for bashing Brexit it has to be justified, How much of this can be attributed to Brexit? And, how much is due to the ongoings of the past year?

Wasn't particularly bashing Brexit as I wasn't over concerned which way the referendum went. IMO there were both good & bad points with staying or leaving. Freedom of movement was my main bugbear, so i'm glad that's stopped. If we need foreigners to come here to work, it's now up to us who comes and on what conditions. Any fruit picking that isn't being done should be done by the asylum seekers that we're keeping, this way they are able to give something back and aren't taking jobs from British citizens.

I don't know if it's pandemic or Brexit related, probably both. The later bulletin said that it's too early to tell whether this decrease will continue or not.

[Sephiroth]

Believe it or not, freedom of movement was the one policy I supported.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Believe it or not, freedom of movement was the one policy I supported.

Our doctor was swamped by Poles last time I was able to leave the house. I do hope that Brexit now means we are no longer sending Child Benefit for their kids living in Poland whilst cuts are being made to the benefits of disabled people over here.

Last time I was in London, I saw EU migrants living in the subways and aggressively begging (bordering on intimidating & mugging people). At Marble Arch they were defecating in local parks. Even my cat buries it's waste, but these didn't.

They routinely defrauded our social security system when I worked for them to get around the rule that was introduced to try and stop them coming here and signing on straight away for JSA.

These are some of the reasons I don't want FOM & hope we've got rid of them.

How did you know they were EU migrants? (not, say, from Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya, Turkey, Albania, Bosnian, Serbian, or other non-EU countries).

Also, you can’t sign on for JSA unless you have an NI number, which you can’t get unless you’re "legal".

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Hugh

How did you know they were EU migrants? (not, say, from Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya, Turkey, Albania, Bosnian, Serbian, or other non-EU countries).

Also, you can’t sign on for JSA unless you have an NI number, which you can’t get unless you’re "legal".

There was a programme on BBC1 around the same time. It showed the police moving them on from the area because they were making a nuisance of themselves by living in bushes in parks etc. Everytime they moved them on, they made a nuisance of themselves elsewhere. When moved from there, they'd move back to the original place, so it was a thankless task. These people tended to come from poorer countries & used everything they had to get a flight here to 'make their fortune'. This tended to be crime, benefit fraud, prostitution, shoplifting etc.

There were calls to make it a condition of EU migration that one had to have a job & accomodation in place before coming, i'm not sure how far Cameron got with this. I'm guessing the EU blocked it like they did his efforts to curtail their rights to claim benefits.

They were from Romania, so were legal and able to get a NI number. However, it's not difficult to obtain a NI No if you're not entitled to one. Thousands of illegal immigrants have been issued with one when they shouldn't have been and they are available to buy on the black market. These are usually obtained by people pretending to be a deceased child that has come of age or by stealing someones identity who has emigrated abroad.

Sometimes the DWP will issue temporary NINO's (you can tell these because they always start with TN followed by six digits that represent the date of birth that the person is or is claiming to be). These don't show up on the computer system, so can be abused.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Just seen this on the news about our decreased exports to the EU January just gone:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-business-live

"No similar falls with rest of world "is concerning and can't be sugar-coated.

However, let's be optimistic, expect the losses to be made up in February, and hope we can put down January to stockpiling and teething troubles.

Peter Foster - Public Policy Editor at the Financial Times

The ONS #Brexit trade stats are ugly, even allowing for December stockpiling & "teething problems"

- exports to EU down 40.7%
- exports to Ireland off 47%
- imports from EU off 28.8%

No similar falls with rest of world

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status...998466/photo/1
https://www.ft.com/content/55f116d8-...a-94be4d379db0

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

There was a programme on BBC1 around the same time. It showed the police moving them on from the area because they were making a nuisance of themselves by living in bushes in parks etc. Everytime they moved them on, they made a nuisance of themselves elsewhere. When moved from there, they'd move back to the original place, so it was a thankless task. These people tended to come from poorer countries & used everything they had to get a flight here to 'make their fortune'. This tended to be crime, benefit fraud, prostitution, shoplifting etc.

There were calls to make it a condition of EU migration that one had to have a job & accomodation in place before coming, i'm not sure how far Cameron got with this. I'm guessing the EU blocked it like they did his efforts to curtail their rights to claim benefits.

They were from Romania, so were legal and able to get a NI number. However, it's not difficult to obtain a NI No if you're not entitled to one. Thousands of illegal immigrants have been issued with one when they shouldn't have been and they are available to buy on the black market. These are usually obtained by people pretending to be a deceased child that has come of age or by stealing someones identity who has emigrated abroad.

Sometimes the DWP will issue temporary NINO's (you can tell these because they always start with TN followed by six digits that represent the date of birth that the person is or is claiming to be). These don't show up on the computer system, so can be abused.

Thank you got this information - however, you didn’t answer the question I raised about this statement

Last time I was in London, I saw EU migrants living in the subways

How did you know they were EU migrants,or were you just assuming?

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Our doctor was swamped by Poles last time I was able to leave the house.

Yeah, our hospital is swamped with foreign Doctors and nurses too. Its outrageous they come over here and provide healthcare.

And those Poles, all they do is build our houses.....

Originally Posted by Mr K

Yeah, our hospital is swamped with foreign Doctors and nurses too. Its outrageous they come over here and provide healthcare.

And those Poles, all they do is build our houses.....

Controlled economic migration is a fantastic thing. It can, and will, continue. It allows us to plug skills gaps without increasing local populations beyond the capacity of services that councils and health authorities plan on a decadal (or longer) basis and can’t easily or quickly change. Most of the plumbing and heating work done in my house over the last 15 years has been done by Poles and Czechs. It can be difficult to get anyone to come out to this remote spot so I’m grateful for their willingness to graft for a living.

However, *uncontrolled* migration within the EU was socially unsustainable, which is why our democracy inevitably rejected it at the first genuine opportunity. The large number of Eastern European beggars on the streets of British cities are testimony to the fact that if you can’t control immigration, along with the economically useful immigrants you simply end up importing other countries’ social problems.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

There was a programme on BBC1 around the same time. It showed the police moving them on from the area because they were making a nuisance of themselves by living in bushes in parks etc. Everytime they moved them on, they made a nuisance of themselves elsewhere. When moved from there, they'd move back to the original place, so it was a thankless task. These people tended to come from poorer countries & used everything they had to get a flight here to 'make their fortune'. This tended to be crime, benefit fraud, prostitution, shoplifting etc.

There were calls to make it a condition of EU migration that one had to have a job & accomodation in place before coming, i'm not sure how far Cameron got with this. I'm guessing the EU blocked it like they did his efforts to curtail their rights to claim benefits.

They were from Romania, so were legal and able to get a NI number. However, it's not difficult to obtain a NI No if you're not entitled to one. Thousands of illegal immigrants have been issued with one when they shouldn't have been and they are available to buy on the black market. These are usually obtained by people pretending to be a deceased child that has come of age or by stealing someones identity who has emigrated abroad.

Sometimes the DWP will issue temporary NINO's (you can tell these because they always start with TN followed by six digits that represent the date of birth that the person is or is claiming to be). These don't show up on the computer system, so can be abused.

Those payments were down to our own governments rules, nowt to do with being in the EU.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

There was a programme on BBC1 around the same time. It showed the police moving them on from the area because they were making a nuisance of themselves by living in bushes in parks etc. Everytime they moved them on, they made a nuisance of themselves elsewhere. When moved from there, they'd move back to the original place, so it was a thankless task. These people tended to come from poorer countries & used everything they had to get a flight here to 'make their fortune'. This tended to be crime, benefit fraud, prostitution, shoplifting etc.

There were calls to make it a condition of EU migration that one had to have a job & accomodation in place before coming, i'm not sure how far Cameron got with this. I'm guessing the EU blocked it like they did his efforts to curtail their rights to claim benefits.

They were from Romania, so were legal and able to get a NI number. However, it's not difficult to obtain a NI No if you're not entitled to one. Thousands of illegal immigrants have been issued with one when they shouldn't have been and they are available to buy on the black market. These are usually obtained by people pretending to be a deceased child that has come of age or by stealing someones identity who has emigrated abroad.

Sometimes the DWP will issue temporary NINO's (you can tell these because they always start with TN followed by six digits that represent the date of birth that the person is or is claiming to be). These don't show up on the computer system, so can be abused.

You would be mistaken - this actually happens in EU countries, the U.K. choose not to enforce it.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Thank you got this information - however, you didn’t answer the question I raised about this statement

How did you know they were EU migrants,or were you just assuming?

I didn't know that they were Romanian at this particular spot until it was covered on the BBC1 programme. I was surprised to see the BBC criticising immigrants.

---------- Post added at 15:49 ---------- Previous post was at 15:45 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Yeah, our hospital is swamped with foreign Doctors and nurses too. Its outrageous they come over here and provide healthcare.

And those Poles, all they do is build our houses.....

Those that plug gaps in healthcare were (and still are) welcome.

It's the ones that come over & claim benefits or take unskilled work from those that that need a job that were the problem. This also drove down wages for those that werd able go find work, often resulting in increased benefit expenditure.

---------- Post added at 15:50 ---------- Previous post was at 15:49 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Controlled economic migration is a fantastic thing. It can, and will, continue. It allows us to plug skills gaps without increasing local populations beyond the capacity of services that councils and health authorities plan on a decadal (or longer) basis and can’t easily or quickly change. Most of the plumbing and heating work done in my house over the last 15 years has been done by Poles and Czechs. It can be difficult to get anyone to come out to this remote spot so I’m grateful for their willingness to graft for a living.

However, *uncontrolled* migration within the EU was socially unsustainable, which is why our democracy inevitably rejected it at the first genuine opportunity. The large number of Eastern European beggars on the streets of British cities are testimony to the fact that if you can’t control immigration, along with the economically useful immigrants you simply end up importing other countries’ social problems.

Exactly.

---------- Post added at 15:56 ---------- Previous post was at 15:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Angua

Those payments were down to our own governments rules, nowt to do with being in the EU.

Yes and no. These payments were not intended for this purpose, however, because the EU forbid our Government to treat foreign incomers any different, they had go pay them.

I think that this was one of the reasons why Cameron introduced the Benefits Cap & limited income related payments for children, in all but exceptionally circumstances, to only two.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Yes and no. These payments were not intended for this purpose, however, because the EU forbid our Government to treat foreign incomers any different, they had go pay them.

I think that this was one of the reasons why Cameron introduced the Benefits Cap & limited income related payments for children, in all but exceptionally circumstances, to only two.

Incorrect. EU nationals moving to the UK could not sign on and start claiming benefits.

Cameron introduced the benefits cap as it's popular in the Conservative Party and ticked the austerity box.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Incorrect. EU nationals moving to the UK could not sign on and start claiming benefits.

Cameron introduced the benefits cap as it's popular in the Conservative Party and ticked the austerity box.

They couldn't sign on for any unemployment benefits straight away as that was stopped. Instead they claimed and/or abused the in work benefit system eg Working Tax Credits, Housing Benefit, Council Tax Support or claimed income related benefits related to sickness, children, retirement, disability, retirement etc.