Coronavirus

[mrmistoffelees]

Case in point, yes it’s the guardian. However primary source is the NHS trust…

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...box=1639821814

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

That’s not what I’m asking, I’m asking you what will happen if you let the virus flood through society, the answer is that masses of primary & secondary health care professionals will be either off sick, or self isolating. both sets would potentially be unable to provide care to either covid or normal patients.

You’re right hospitals haven’t become overwhelmed yet, either in previous waves because we had lockdowns or in this wave because of course there is the lag between infection and hospitalisation. It is interesting however that London’s hospitalisation rate is up 30% week on week where the current epicentre of omicron infections is. I hope I’m wrong but I believe in the next 2-3 weeks we will see significant admissions. Time will tell.


Vaccines were our way out of this until the omicron variant came along, they’re now not as much the silver bullet that they originally were.

Natural immunity is not a protection against reinfection from omicron (or so the scientists say)

Turning to lockdowns, they’ve always been stated that their job was to suppress the spread of infection and to protect the NHS, nothing else. To that end they did their job exactly as was required.


Lastly, it is of course your choice should you wish to, and no doubt there will be a number of people who will agree and act in the same way. However, it appears in general that the British public are acting more cautiously.


Just my 2c

I will say it again. Lockdowns do not work, this has been proven time and time again.

Natural Immunity is a viable protection. It doesn’t stop you catching it, much like the vaccines, but helps equally & greatly against serious illness.

Sorry but the booster vaccines came out before Omicron became a thing.

So what your advocating is damaging shut downs at every variant and jabs jabs and more jabs galore and sod every other fatal illness out there?

---------- Post added at 18:12 ---------- Previous post was at 18:05 ----------

Originally Posted by Paul

Didnt Wales try a "Circuit Breaker" last year.
Did it really achieve much ? The whole UK went into lockdown anyway.

And it didn’t stop cases rising at the time either. In Wales cases rose more during their circuit breaker bull shit.. I also remember at the time, they also, idiotically started covering shelves with plastic sheets banning sale of non-essential goods. An egregious act of authoritarian power going to heads.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mick

I will say it again. Lockdowns do not work, this has been proven time and time again.

Natural Immunity is a viable protection. It doesn’t stop you catching it, much like the vaccines, but helps equally & greatly against serious illness.

Sorry but the booster vaccines came out before Omicron became a thing.

So what your advocating is damaging shut downs at every variant and jabs jabs and more jabs galore and sod every other fatal illness out there?

They do work, when the aim is to slow the spread of the virus, there is demonstrable proof of that happening when they were implemented.

Nobody knows that natural immunity will do in our society, South Africa isn’t a direct comparison due its demographics.

Pierre said this earlier in the thread, what should have happened is that clinical staffing for the nhs should have been ramped up, the government has had two years and they have failed so spectacularly it’s beyond comprehension.

Lockdown is the absolute last thing I want to happen, however it appears that current measures are not sufficient.

Let’s keep going with current measures… what happens when other areas of the country start to catch up with London ?

Businesses unable to operate due to staff sick or isolating
Primary/secondary care unable to offer treatment due to staff sick or isolating

This is a horrible place to be in with two options and neither of them is a win

1. Continue as we are. Protect the economy, damage the nhs
2. Implement further protective measures. Damage the economy, protect the nhs

There’s no win win solution in this, something is going to suffer

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

They do work, when the aim is to slow the spread of the virus, there is demonstrable proof of that happening when they were implemented.

Nobody knows that natural immunity will do in our society, South Africa isn’t a direct comparison due its demographics.

Pierre said this earlier in the thread, what should have happened is that clinical staffing for the nhs should have been ramped up, the government has had two years and they have failed so spectacularly it’s beyond comprehension.

Lockdown is the absolute last thing I want to happen, however it appears that current measures are not sufficient.

Let’s keep going with current measures… what happens when other areas of the country start to catch up with London ?

Businesses unable to operate due to staff sick or isolating
Primary/secondary care unable to offer treatment due to staff sick or isolating

This is a horrible place to be in with two options and neither of them is a win

1. Continue as we are. Protect the economy, damage the nhs
2. Implement further protective measures. Damage the economy, protect the nhs

There’s no win win solution in this, something is going to suffer

It is better to just live with the virus. The Pandemic is an endemic. We cannot live like this at every variant.

The original major lockdown worked, but when lockdowns are implemented again and again, behavioural science dictates they are less effective, because people become tired of perpetual locking everything down.

[jfman]

Continuing as we are doesn’t protect the economy. It just absolves the Government of responsibility for it.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mick

It is better to just live with the virus. The Pandemic is an endemic. We cannot live like this at every variant.

The original major lockdown worked, but when lockdowns are implemented again and again, behavioural science dictates they are less effective, because people become tired of perpetual locking everything down.

Completely agree re lockdowns, people grew weary and let’s face it lockdowns 3& 4 weren’t even lockdowns.

What happens to businesses/staff and to NHS staff if we live with the virus? How many hundreds of thousands if not millions of people will be sick or need to self isolate ?

I don’t want the NHS to collapse, it’s not without faults but I’m immensely proud of the service we have.

We can put in further financial assistance to help businesses and it can be paid for

---------- Post added at 18:42 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ----------

Netherlands to go back into lockdown from tomorrow

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59713503

---------- Post added at 18:46 ---------- Previous post was at 18:42 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Continuing as we are doesn’t protect the economy. It just absolves the Government of responsibility for it.

It doesn’t financially, think about the SSP claims…. Also, businesses that are having to pay sick pay but are unable to operate due to staff shortages. They would be screaming for financial assistance again

[heero_yuy]

Just got back from having the booster jab an hour ago. Stung a bit and they put on a dressing. It was the Pfizer. All very well orgainsed as the two previous times.

Is this jabbed deeper than the AZ? Anyhow I had it in my LH arm as I'm right handed and get odd muscle pains in that upper arm.

So far no effects.

Just having a couple of tots of whiskey.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Completely agree re lockdowns, people grew weary and let’s face it lockdowns 3& 4 weren’t even lockdowns.

What happens to businesses/staff and to NHS staff if we live with the virus? How many hundreds of thousands if not millions of people will be sick or need to self isolate ?

I don’t want the NHS to collapse, it’s not without faults but I’m immensely proud of the service we have.

We can put in further financial assistance to help businesses and it can be paid for

---------- Post added at 18:42 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ----------

Netherlands to go back into lockdown from tomorrow

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59713503

---------- Post added at 18:46 ---------- Previous post was at 18:42 ----------



It doesn’t financially, think about the SSP claims…. Also, businesses that are having to pay sick pay but are unable to operate due to staff shortages. They would be screaming for financial assistance again

You keep going on about ifs and buts. But if we learn to live with the virus, like every other illness, no needs for isolation, majority of those catching it will be asymptomatic. And with omicron it’s not causing a surge in hospital admissions or deaths.

[heero_yuy]

It'll become routine like flu. At the moment there are too many headless chickens running round with knives in their backs.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

It'll become routine like flu. At the moment there are too many headless chickens running round with knives in their backs.

It only becomes routine when it moves genuinely into cold/flu territory. Not when it has the capability to collapse the healthcare system. Between now and then politicians need to have a genuine conversation about what “living with the virus” looks like. What restrictions are proportionate, when and what support is there for affected businesses.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mick

You keep going on about ifs and buts. But if we learn to live with the virus, like every other illness, no needs for isolation, majority of those catching it will be asymptomatic. And with omicron it’s not causing a surge in hospital admissions or deaths.

London hospitalisations have increased 30% in a week where the current omicron epicentre is. I’ll be willing to bet that’s going to increase, probably significantly in the next 2-3 weeks

If we choose not to isolate when sick and symptoms are as you say symptomatic. What happens to the immunosuppressed living their lives. What happens to front line medical staff who are infected and go into their place of work with clinically vulnerable people?

We’re both talking ifs and buts as neither of us can see how this definitively ends. I guess it comes down to your personal appetite in terms of risk aversion.


We’ve been able to find money for wars & other nonsense such as HS2. We can find money to support businesses (which I don’t disagree will need considerable support.)

---------- Post added at 19:28 ---------- Previous post was at 19:23 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

It'll become routine like flu. At the moment there are too many headless chickens running round with knives in their backs.

Just because people have a differing opinion to you, doesn’t make them ‘headless chickens running round with knives in their backs’

It will eventually evolve into something weaker, however there’s no guarantee that each subsequent variant will be weaker than that last until such point as it becomes endemic and no less deadly than a cold. The Spanish Flu tells us that, as does studies into virology in the animal kingdom.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

London hospitalisations have increased 30% in a week where the current omicron epicentre is. I’ll be willing to bet that’s going to increase, probably significantly in the next 2-3 weeks

If we choose not to isolate when sick and symptoms are as you say symptomatic. What happens to the immunosuppressed living their lives. What happens to front line medical staff who are infected and go into their place of work with clinically vulnerable people?

We’re both talking ifs and buts as neither of us can see how this definitively ends. I guess it comes down to your personal appetite in terms of risk aversion.


We’ve been able to find money for wars & other nonsense such as HS2. We can find money to support businesses (which I don’t disagree will need considerable support.)

The risk is not there. It’s a mild flu like condition.

And how do we know that the 30% increase is for Omicron or just normal for winter like illnesses?

We already have testimony from Africa Omicron is a very mild version of Covid. They have even accused the UK and other European nations of overreacting and they are right.

Originally Posted by Mick

The risk is not there. It’s a mild flu like condition.

And how do we know that the 30% increase is for Omicron or just normal for winter like illnesses?

We already have testimony from Africa Omicron is a very mild version of Covid. They have even accused the UK and other European nations of overreacting and they are right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59711474

There were 1,534 Covid patients in London hospitals as of Friday - up 28.6% on last week - with about 200 new admissions per day.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mick

The risk is not there. It’s a mild flu like condition.

And how do we know that the 30% increase is for Omicron or just normal for winter like illnesses?

We already have testimony from Africa Omicron is a very mild version of Covid. They have even accused the UK and other European nations of overreacting and they are right.

It’s a mild flu like condition to some, ok, let me ask another way, if it’s just a mild flu, then why did governments globally lockdown, they can’t all be wrong, so what is the ulterior motive ?

It would be an amazing coincidence to see it linked to something else, but you’re right it’s entirely plausible

Africas population & demographics are completely different to the U.K. they can’t speak on our behalf.

This could be a storm in a teacup. You could be right, I hope you are. As if you’re wrong & if the scientists are right we are going to be in a world of hurt.

Time will tell.

Been a pleasure discussing 👍

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

It’s a mild flu like condition to some, ok, let me ask another way, if it’s just a mild flu, then why did governments globally lockdown, they can’t all be wrong, so what is the ulterior motive ?

It would be an amazing coincidence to see it linked to something else, but you’re right it’s entirely plausible

Africas population & demographics are completely different to the U.K. they can’t speak on our behalf.

This could be a storm in a teacup. You could be right, I hope you are. As if you’re wrong & if the scientists are right we are going to be in a world of hurt.

Time will tell.

Been a pleasure discussing ��

Does that include the scientists in Hong Kong who have a pre print study being peer reviewed ATM that omicron is indeed milder as it targets the upper respitory tract rather than deep lung? Hugh referred and linked to it earlier here.