Coronavirus

[Carth]

What would a vaccine passport achieve?

I was under the impression that the vaccine neither prevents you from catching Covid or passing it on to others.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Carth

What would a vaccine passport achieve?

I was under the impression that the vaccine neither prevents you from catching Covid or passing it on to others.

There is certainly some evidence that both the mRNA (Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna) and Adenoviral (Oxford/AZ) vaccines reduce viral load either in animal studies, human studies or both. Lower viral load means less virus to spread even if infected.

Of course studies are ongoing here which is why, at this point, you can't say that either types of vaccine prevents infection or infection spread specifically. We can only say it prevent symptomatic infections.

If the human studies confirm what was seen in the animal studies (lower viral load and rapid infection clearance) then that's where a vaccinated but infected person would be a lower risk and that's where passports would be handy

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Carth

What would a vaccine passport achieve?

I was under the impression that the vaccine neither prevents you from catching Covid or passing it on to others.

You're right, it's exactly what a doctor said this morning. The only upside appears to be that it will probably prevent those who catch it from getting the most severe affects of covid.

So, as you say, what is the point of a vaccine passport?

Also, though I can understand why they're doing it, the mass testing of the lorry drivers isn't foolproof. We're really just grasping at straws and hoping for the best as that's all that we can do at this point in time.

The mutations in the UK & South Africa have really added fuel to the fire.

---------- Post added at 15:09 ---------- Previous post was at 15:07 ----------

Originally Posted by jonbxx

There is certainly some evidence that both the mRNA (Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna) and Adenoviral (Oxford/AZ) vaccines reduce viral load either in animal studies, human studies or both. Lower viral load means less virus to spread even if infected.

Of course studies are ongoing here which is why, at this point, you can't say that either types of vaccine prevents infection or infection spread specifically. We can only say it prevent symptomatic infections.

If the human studies confirm what was seen in the animal studies (lower viral load and rapid infection clearance) then that's where a vaccinated but infected person would be a lower risk and that's where passports would be handy

That's some positive news, I suppose it's only a matter of waiting to see what happens and hoping for the best now.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

You're right, it's exactly what a doctor said this morning. The only upside appears to be that it will probably prevent those who catch it from getting the most severe affects of covid.

So, as you say, what is the point of a vaccine passport?

Also, though I can understand why they're doing it, the mass testing of the lorry drivers isn't foolproof. We're really just grasping at straws and hoping for the best as that's all that we can do at this point in time.

The mutations in the UK & South Africa have really added fuel to the fire.

---------- Post added at 15:09 ---------- Previous post was at 15:07 ----------



That's some positive news, I suppose it's only a matter of waiting to see what happens and hoping for the best now.

Money.

If you wanted to sell say, 90,000 tickets to an Anthony Joshua fight at Wembley you wouldn't need to maintain distancing if you only sold tickets to those who had been vaccinated. The aggregate of all the sectors you could fully reopen - to those vaccinated only - and economic impact on their supply chains is huge.

No passport and everyone is left applying the precautionary principle, restrictions, distancing, etc.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by jfman

Money.

If you wanted to sell say, 90,000 tickets to an Anthony Joshua fight at Wembley you wouldn't need to maintain distancing if you only sold tickets to those who had been vaccinated. The aggregate of all the sectors you could fully reopen - to those vaccinated only - and economic impact on their supply chains is huge.

No passport and everyone is left applying the precautionary principle, restrictions, distancing, etc.

Which means you could have 90,000 people crammed together in a large arena, and only 500 of them *may* be carrying the virus with the ability to infect others . . sounds perfectly safe to me . . get the pubs open

[RichardCoulter]

But the doctor this morning said that a vaccinated person might still be able to pass it on, so it's still important to wear masks, socially distance, ventilate in open spaces and adhere to regular hand washing.

Until they know more for definite, I think that they will have to hold off from using covid passports as any sort of guarantee of safety, otherwise it's just a possible illusion of safety.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

But the doctor this morning said that a vaccinated person might still be able to pass it on, so it's still important to wear masks, socially distance, ventilate in open spaces and adhere to regular hand washing.

Until they know more for definite, I think that they will have to hold off from using covid passports as any sort of guarantee of safety, otherwise it's just a possible illusion of safety.

But they're all vaccinated. So who do they pass it on to within the venue who is at risk?

You are right that distancing, masks, etc will remain important within the wider population and in general but there will be overwhelming pressure from many sectors of the economy to develop environments these aren't necessary for those vaccinated.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by jfman

But they're all vaccinated. So who do they pass it on to within the venue who is at risk?

You are right that distancing, masks, etc will remain important within the wider population and in general but there will be overwhelming pressure from many sectors of the economy to develop environments these aren't necessary for those vaccinated.

The vaccine doesn't stop you catching it . . . . so all 89,500 if using the SAGE computations

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Carth

The vaccine doesn't stop you catching it . . . . so all 89,500 if using the SAGE computations

Yes, but...

[nomadking]

So has smallpox been eradicated or is is still around?

Originally Posted by nomadking

So has smallpox been eradicated or is is still around?

Eradicated.

https://www.who.int/health-topics/smallpox#tab=tab_1

The last known natural case was in Somalia in 1977. In 1980 WHO declared smallpox eradicated – the only infectious disease to achieve this distinction.

Originally Posted by nomadking

So has smallpox been eradicated or is is still around?

IIRC it's been eradicated from humans but smallpox still exists in labs and possibly unknowingly perceived somewhere else in ice/test tubes e.t.c.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Eradicated.

https://www.who.int/health-topics/smallpox#tab=tab_1

Precisely my point. If vaccines were that ineffective, it would still be around.

[Carth]

How long did it take to eradicate smallpox . . . or to fully develop the working vaccine?

[downquark1]

As long as the R value gets below 1 consistently the virus will decline to the point of eradication or to something you only can get from kissing your cat or something.