Coronavirus - Page 88

papa smurf · 01-12-2020, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Thank you.

I wonder, if he has an major operation, he uses a "natural" general anaesthetic?

like something poppy based, or valerian maybe

jonbxx · 01-12-2020, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

But the testing has been rushed, most new treatments don't go into production for use in the general population in such a short timeframe, if people want to take the vaccine then they should be aware that it has been rushed into the final stages of production, I personally will not be having the vaccination until it has a few years safety record behind it, but I wouldn't stand in the way of anyone who wants it, it has to be down to the individuals choice.

It really hasn't been rushed. The risks taken by the vaccine developers are largely financial. Normally drug companies would perform each stage of testing and analyse to make a decision on whether to move forward. That decision is both technical and financial - does the drug work and is it worth our while investing going to the next step?

In this case, during Phase I (safety) trials, Phase II and Phase III were already being planned. Normally, there would be a pause between each step to decide if it's worth going ahead. Instead, once the safety tests were completed, volunteers were already lined up for stages II and III. The gap between II and III is usually the big one as there will be huge investments in to manufacturing capacity. By huge, we're talking 10-100+ million quid here with months of work. The drug companies ran all of these steps overlapping each other at a significant financial risk to themselves if the vaccines failed at any step during the trials. Even now, the manufacturers are producing vaccines and storing them until they are approved. If approval doesn't go through or (more likely) changes are needed to be made, all that drug will need to be destroyed at a huge cost.

The total cost to bring a drug to market is estimated at $1-2 billion

With vaccines, the return on investment is rubbish as each patient will only have one or two doses of a vaccine through their lifetime with a few exceptions (flu because it changes every year and tetanus because it's a rubbish vaccine) Not only do patients not have many doses but vaccines prevent diseases that big pharma would like to treat with more drugs! The manufacturers try and bump up the price of vaccines to recoup costs but most health authorities fight back hard. Even a new vaccine like HPV is still pretty cheap and around £50 per dose. Because of this, pharma companies are very risk averse financially as the margins are terrible.

I am blown away by how quickly we have got to where we are to be honest. The scientists involved have done a great job here

Sephiroth · 01-12-2020, 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Thank you.

I wonder, if he has an major operation, he uses a "natural" general anaesthetic?

It's obvious what the elderly person would have. Why have you bothered with that shallow remark?

**Paul** · 01-12-2020, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It's obvious what the elderly person would have. Why have you bothered with that shallow remark?

Obvious to who

Please do explain it to those of us how do not find it obvious at all.

joglynne · 01-12-2020, 16:04

Ignore the headline. The article Is really about Nadhim Zahawi, who is responsible for the rollout of a vaccine and his thoughts on how people/venues could manage their need to prove/know who has been vaccinated.

Quote:

Freedom to not let you in? Pubs and cinemas could turn away vaccine refusers

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/ne...MsGptFIngmjB2E

Sephiroth · 01-12-2020, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul

Obvious to who

Please do explain it to those of us how do not find it obvious at all.

Tut tut your sarcasm.

Person goes to hospital for an operation.

Person is conventionally anesthetised.

Seems only you and your mate Hugh don't find it obvious.

Hom3r · 01-12-2020, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hom3r

To help protect our dad my said has said this Christmas we won't be over.

I'm a bit upset but understand.

So no Turkey in our house this year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Cook it yourself it's not hard, plenty of instructions online.

Well only my dad eats it, so I'm going to see if one of the supermarkets sell a small frozen turkey joint.

papa smurf · 01-12-2020, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hom3r

Well only my dad eats it, so I'm going to see if one of the supermarkets sell a small frozen turkey joint.

**Hugh** · 01-12-2020, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Tut tut your sarcasm.

Person goes to hospital for an operation.

Person is conventionally anesthetised.

Seems only you and your mate Hugh don't find it obvious.

Most ops under general anaesthetic use Propofol - Propofol is not a ‘natural medicine’; in fact, there can be negative interactions* between some ‘natural medicines’ and Propofol (and Fentanyl, another widely used general anaesthetic).

This is why I was asking.

https://www.sps.nhs.uk/wp-content/up...date-2017.docx

*one of the people I meet dog walking in the morning is an anaesthesiologist, and she had mentioned this...

Jimmy-J · 01-12-2020, 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy

Good job there was no one around to tell Jenner not to experiment with finding a vaccination against smallpox.

And a good job there was no one around to tell Jenner not to experiment on James Phipps, a fairly healthy eight-year-old boy. Mind, it was over 200 years ago.

RichardCoulter · 01-12-2020, 18:53

I think i'll let others try it out first to see if anything negative happens before making a decision myself.

Mad Max · 01-12-2020, 18:59

I think the government may go down the route of asking TV personalities, maybe even football stars, if they'd be willing to accept the vaccination of course, this may well encourage those who have doubts about the vaccine to go ahead and get it.

1andrew1 · 01-12-2020, 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Max

I think the government may go down the route of asking TV personalities, maybe even football stars, if they'd be willing to accept the vaccination of course, this may well encourage those who have doubts about the vaccine to go ahead and get it.

Yes, I believe that's the plan. I don't need any more convincing by influencers. Inject me up and then got me on my summer hols!

Mad Max · 01-12-2020, 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Yes, I believe that's the plan. I don't need any more convincing by influencers. Inject me up and then got me on my summer hols!

Oh yes, that's my thoughts too.

papa smurf · 01-12-2020, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Max

I think the government may go down the route of asking TV personalities, maybe even football stars, if they'd be willing to accept the vaccination of course, this may well encourage those who have doubts about the vaccine to go ahead and get it.

MP's should go down the rout of getting their own family's vaccinated first just to show how safe it is.

---------- Post added at 19:17 ---------- Previous post was at 19:16 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I think i'll let others try it out first to see if anything negative happens before making a decision myself.

Gets my vote