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Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
View Poll Results: Will you be opting out of the Virgin Ad Deal?
Yes, Definitely. 958 95.51%
No, I am quite happy to share my surfing habits with anyone. 45 4.49%
Voters: 1003. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 29-05-2008, 21:40   #7516
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I'd be in if someone wants to provide beer and a bed.
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Old 29-05-2008, 21:41   #7517
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

..the point is there is no alternative but fight justly from within the established rules of the system..
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Old 29-05-2008, 21:41   #7518
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpilot View Post
I wonder if he will be lurking around at the BT AGM to be held at the Barbican 16 July 2008. He may even have a seat at the top table by then. Anyone for a spare proxy card? Would give you the chance to ask questions of the Board on my behalf.

Xpilot AKA Richard Hawkins.
This would be a good day for a demo.
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Old 29-05-2008, 21:42   #7519
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff View Post
I think we need to organise an official demo at some point over the summer, in London outside BT HQ.

Alexander Hanff
I'm in London, so I'd go. Count me in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogster View Post
..the point is there is no alternative but fight justly from within the established rules of the system..
Sorry, mate, should have phrased that better.

I meant the point of having these people who are supposed to be working for us, when they clearly don't.
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Old 29-05-2008, 21:44   #7520
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by R Jones View Post
How does one go about writing a news article for C/F please? I found the News page but couldn't see how to compose an article.
by far the easyest way is to write it up, and PM Mick (or one of the other mods, i think they also have rights to add it on that news page) the copy, chat and add or edit it there to include any breaking news, then have him/them put it up..
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Old 29-05-2008, 21:51   #7521
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldBear View Post
I'm in London, so I'd go. Count me in.


Sorry, mate, should have phrased that better.

I meant the point of having these people who are supposed to be working for us, when they clearly don't.
...most wont have time.. sadly thats the system.
..and the reason I have spoiled so many ballot papers
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Old 29-05-2008, 21:53   #7522
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

OK the BT AGM sounds like the perfect date for a demo and the Barbican is easy to get to. We will need to organise this properly because we need to get as many people there as possible or it will have zero effect.

I can try and get press and media coverage through my contacts (I don't think it will be a problem) and I will see if I can get some people like Richard Clayton to turn up and do a "soapbox" speech, make it a day long event.

If we are going to do this we are going to need a "team" to help organise it all, it certainly isn't something I can do on my own.

So lets get started on the organising.

Alexander Hanff
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Old 29-05-2008, 21:55   #7523
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

one equation for you...

numbers = impact

I'll commit to bringing 20 with me.. Even If I have to pay their travel and rope in my family.. We all switched from BT and live in London..
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Old 29-05-2008, 21:56   #7524
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I've just done some analysis for Rob on the webwise.bt.com contact page. It seems they were setting a Netegrity Siteminder Session ID cookie, and other cookies with Rob's email address and date of last visit.

That falls foul of PECR Regulations (regulation 6). Proud to say Dephormation's logging feature captured the cookies, and the redirections which would provide evidence to support any complaint.

BT have since changed their www.webwise.bt.com and webwise.bt.com contact pages. They now link to a form on the bt.custhelp.com site (run by IBM in the UK).

Which - of course - if you had the right legal advice in the first place a change wouldn't be necessary.

Has anyone heard or seen the ICO lately?
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Old 29-05-2008, 22:00   #7525
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

He's waiting in the wings to hear talking vegetables.. Complain!
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Old 29-05-2008, 22:04   #7526
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by serial View Post
My MP submitted a question to the Home Office and today I recieved a letter with the response.

...

Home Office
The Rt Hon Tony McNulty MP
Minister of State

Dear Serials MP

...

The Information Commissioner's Office has provided a view that Targetted Online Advertising could operate in a way that is in compliance with the Data Protection Act, but that he is keeping the targeted online advertising products under review and will be strongly influenced by the experience of those users who choose to participate in any trials and the way in which they are able to make that decision to participate.

Tony McNulty
Oh boy. I feel another letter to my MP coming on...

Dear (my MP)

In a response to a question from a member of the public, The Rt Hon Tony McNulty MP, Home Office Minister of State said in written reply that the Information Commissioner "Is keeping the targeted on-line advertising products under review and will be strongly influenced by the experience of those users who choose to participate in any trials and the way in which they are able to make that decision to participate."

The ICO should ensure that individuals who understand the technicalities of the implementation of any system to deliver targeted advertising are offered the opportunity to take part in such trials. Would you please check if this will be the case?

Furthermore, it is important that the ICO take actions to ensure that individuals are invited to take part who are conversant with the legalities surrounding the running of a system to deliver targeted advertising. Would you ask if this will be the case also?

I feel that this latest information does warrant further questions at a time when BT are continuing to state that they intend to run trials of a system with 10,000 selected customers. We should assume that the 10,000 will indeed be selected, and that selection will exclude the customers whom they know dislike the fact that they have already sought to deceive the public on numerous occasions.

Yours...

Or words to that effect. It will be sent out tomorrow. Of course I doubt that the ICO would do the above, but maybe they might write to the ISPs and tell them to ensure it is not so carefully selected in their own favour?

Hank
 
Old 29-05-2008, 22:07   #7527
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

and he has failed to even conceptualize or address website owners copyright and consent. ;D
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Old 29-05-2008, 22:09   #7528
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

ok first press release on the demo has just been sent out. So I am moving on this. A website will be setup on www.nodpi.org in the next week which will cover the event. I am going to try and get Dr Clayton, Mr Bohm and a Non Phorm ISP representative to give guest speeches at the event. I might even see if the Earl of Northesk would be willing to come out and show support and if I can find a contact for him, Sir Tim.

Alexander Hanff
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Old 29-05-2008, 22:11   #7529
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dephormation View Post
I've just done some analysis for Rob on the webwise.bt.com contact page. It seems they were setting a Netegrity Siteminder Session ID cookie, and other cookies with Rob's email address and date of last visit.

That falls foul of PECR Regulations (regulation 6). Proud to say Dephormation's logging feature captured the cookies, and the redirections which would provide evidence to support any complaint.

BT have since changed their www.webwise.bt.com and webwise.bt.com contact pages. They now link to a form on the bt.custhelp.com site (run by IBM in the UK).

Which - of course - if you had the right legal advice in the first place a change wouldn't be necessary.

Has anyone heard or seen the ICO lately?

Are you saying that they fell foul of PECR but have now sorted it by moving to the IBM UK managed service? Or is your analysis that they are falling foul, even now, with this new set up?

It's absolutely shameful that they've now changed the set up after again being caught in the wrong. When oh when are they going to hold their hands up and tear the agreement with Phorm for Webwise in half?? (ok, maybe not with their hands up at the same time, unless they want to make a positive PR stunt out of it LOL)

Hank
 
Old 29-05-2008, 22:23   #7530
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Are you saying that they fell foul of PECR but have now sorted it by moving to the IBM UK managed service? Or is your analysis that they are falling foul, even now, with this new set up?
Yes - in my analysis of Robs log - they broke PERC Reg 6. They set the following cookies;

btcom.userName = (email address)
btcom.dateVisited = (date of visit)
SMSESSION = (Netegrity site minder encrypted cookie)
.. plus a couple of Java and PHP session cookies.

By setting such cookies without specifying their purpose or allowing a user to refuse storage they broke PERC Reg 6. The Netegrity Siteminder cookie is particularly interesting; I believe it contains encrypted user details and could be intended for 'federated identity management' (ie, allowing you to be identified across a range of sites).

Then they covered it up by scrapping the contact form, and linking to IBM UK bt.custhelp.com instead.

Pete

PS As for their new contact form, if someone wants to make a complaint using the new forms (using the Dephormation logging feature) ... send me a PM and I'll review the results.
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