The energy crisis - Page 6

1andrew1 · 30-09-2021, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Because some products are genuinely best to the free market. But there has to be attributes of an actually free market with a large number of suppliers and genuine choice throughout the supply chains. Low barriers to entry for new suppliers and little consequences if one fails.

The same isn’t true of the energy market and they’re all relying on the taxpayer to underwrite failure. Unlike a distillery making a diverse range of Vodka brands.

The barriers to entry for the energy have been set too low such that anyone can set up in business with a laughable number of failures pre the current energy market crisis. The net result is higher prices as energy customers have to pay a levy to sort out the admin when these companies fail.

I honestly don't think six is a bad number of companies to have in the market. And new entrants like Octopus and First Energy (acquired by Shell) have demonstrated that it is possible to succeed against the incumbents.

TheDaddy · 30-09-2021, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K

I think you may be over simplifying/drinking too much vodka

But as far as electric/gas is concerned it's all very similar out of the pipes/wires. Why you pay different depending on which area of the country you're in or which company is bizarre. The OFGEM price cap does effectively mean most will now pay paying very similar high prices, with choice getting restricted by the day.

Go on I'll say it. Nationalise it, with the same price for everyone rich or poor, Shetlands or Cornwall, paying the same rates. The railways are going that way so why not energy? Tragedy of the current system is that the poorest with pre-payment meters pay most. Dickens would have had a field day...

I'm on a pre pay meter and I'm not paying the most here, not by a long shot, I did ask them to install a normal meter just before covid struck but the installer made up some cock and ball story about why he couldn't be bothered to do it. I get the odd letter saying I could save a fiver a month if I re booked but I think sod 'em I'd rather change providers than be messed about by them again

**Chris** · 30-09-2021, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K

I think you may be over simplifying/drinking too much vodka

But as far as electric/gas is concerned it's all very similar out of the pipes/wires. Why you pay different depending on which area of the country you're in or which company is bizarre. The OFGEM price cap does effectively mean most will now pay paying very similar high prices, with choice getting restricted by the day.

Go on I'll say it. Nationalise it, with the same price for everyone rich or poor, Shetlands or Cornwall, paying the same rates. The railways are going that way so why not energy? Tragedy of the current system is that the poorest with pre-payment meters pay most. Dickens would have had a field day...

There’s nothing bizarre about it. A portion of your bill is paid by your service provider to your local distribution network operating company. They set their own costs which reflect various factors including their network topography. My DNO has particularly high costs because it covers the Scottish highlands. Some of the smallest electricity supply companies won’t sign up customers in my postcode for that reason. I suspect these are the same ones that have tried to keep their costs so low that they’ve now collapsed.

Pierre · 30-09-2021, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Because some products are genuinely best to the free market. But there has to be attributes of an actually free market with a large number of suppliers and genuine choice throughout the supply chains. Low barriers to entry for new suppliers and little consequences if one fails.

The same isn’t true of the energy market and they’re all relying on the taxpayer to underwrite failure. Unlike a distillery making a diverse range of Vodka brands.

In an alternate reality, a socialist dystopian one of course, we could all still be on dial-up internet, no hfc, no fibre etc.

The state can provide all your communication needs, and we say you will get 55kps. And like it.

I am open to a discussion on certain sectors being tighter regulated (not necessarily nationalised)

nomadking · 30-09-2021, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K

I think you may be over simplifying/drinking too much vodka

But as far as electric/gas is concerned it's all very similar out of the pipes/wires. Why you pay different depending on which area of the country you're in or which company is bizarre. The OFGEM price cap does effectively mean most will now pay paying very similar high prices, with choice getting restricted by the day.

Go on I'll say it. Nationalise it, with the same price for everyone rich or poor, Shetlands or Cornwall, paying the same rates. The railways are going that way so why not energy? Tragedy of the current system is that the poorest with pre-payment meters pay most. Dickens would have had a field day...

Do they? Or is that them just paying off arrears?

Jaymoss · 30-09-2021, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

Do they? Or is that them just paying off arrears?

yes they do. The rates are higher (in most circumstances)

nomadking · 01-10-2021, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

yes they do. The rates are higher (in most circumstances)

And your evidence is.......

1andrew1 · 01-10-2021, 00:48

Quote:

Prepayment meters are usually more expensive per unit of energy than most other tariffs

https://www.moneysupermarket.com/gas...ayment-meters/

nomadking · 01-10-2021, 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

https://www.moneysupermarket.com/gas...ayment-meters/

Well it also says...

Quote:

Once you get to the end of your current credit allowance, your energy is shut off until you can buy more

Link

Quote:

If your Pay As You Go meter runs out of credit unexpectedly, don't panic. We'll lend you a limited amount of emergency credit to keep you going until you top up. Your meter will show how much. Go to screen ‘R’ on your electricity meter or screen '22' on your gas meter.

Difficult for me to use my own figures as my supplier(SSE) has made a right mess of them. I have 4 different rates mentioned for my electric for the past 6 months, the lowest of which is on the smart meter device. That hasn't changed overnight, although the standing charge has. If I was on PAYG, that would be the cheapest option by far. Whether that cheap rate ends up being the one used on bills is another matter.
I changed from PAYG to credit a matter of months ago. The PAYG rate(£17.99) was lower than the credit rate(£18.55) used. Might've been a bad idea to change from PAYG, as it looks like I would still be paying the cheap £17.99KWh rate.

jfman · 01-10-2021, 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

In an alternate reality, a socialist dystopian one of course, we could all still be on dial-up internet, no hfc, no fibre etc.

The state can provide all your communication needs, and we say you will get 55kps. And like it.

I am open to a discussion on certain sectors being tighter regulated (not necessarily nationalised)

Would unregulated capitalism provide fibre to everyone, or just cream off the profitable bits waiting for the state to subsidise the rest to the tune of billions? And when the state does where do the profits go? Where’s the genuine competition for end users?

Taf · 01-10-2021, 10:04

I went to bed paying 12p per kwh for electricity and 2.6p per kwh for gas.

I got up today paying 22p per kwh for electricity and 4.4p per kwh for gas.

Plus the standing charges of course.

**Hugh** · 01-10-2021, 10:12

Wow!

I currently (until June 22) pay 16.467p per kWh for electricity & 3.182p per kWh for gas (plus standing charges).

1andrew1 · 01-10-2021, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

Well it also says...

Link

Difficult for me to use my own figures as my supplier(SSE) has made a right mess of them. I have 4 different rates mentioned for my electric for the past 6 months, the lowest of which is on the smart meter device. That hasn't changed overnight, although the standing charge has. If I was on PAYG, that would be the cheapest option by far. Whether that cheap rate ends up being the one used on bills is another matter.
I changed from PAYG to credit a matter of months ago. The PAYG rate(£17.99) was lower than the credit rate(£18.55) used. Might've been a bad idea to change from PAYG, as it looks like I would still be paying the cheap £17.99KWh rate.

I think the regulated PAYG rates have gone up significantly today.

heero_yuy · 01-10-2021, 10:30

When the wholesale price of gas has done this:

Many customers on fixed price deals and the rest with a price cap make suppliers business models obsolete overnight. There's speculation that the next one to go under may be too big for the remaining ones to absorb their customers.

wholesale_gas_21.jpg

Carth · 01-10-2021, 10:48

You'd think that with all the benefits that Double/Triple Glazing, Loft Insulation and Cavity Wall Insulation bring to homes, gas usage would be falling like a brick . . more so given the newer power generating technologies in place (wind turbines, solar power), so who's using it all?

Is the domestic customer paying the price for ever expanding business usage?