Streaming services news, offers and general chit chat
26-10-2021, 15:52
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#451
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Architect of Ideas
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Re: Streaming services news, offers and general chit chat
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Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Yes, it does, where choice is plentiful. I think scripted content will always be cheaper on streamers.
Where choice is more restricted (ie sport), it's a different scenario. However, there's a limit to what people will be prepared to pay.
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Is choice “plentiful” or is everyone chasing the best price from the same half dozen independent studios or having to invest in their own?
After all there’s only a finite amount of actors, narrators, directors, producers, etc before you start scraping the barrel quality wise.
---------- Post added at 14:52 ---------- Previous post was at 14:49 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
What Sky said last time was that they were being more circumspect about the bidding process and that there was a limit on how much they were prepared to bid.
Of course, that might just have been a ploy to convince competitors to keep their bids lower than they might otherwise have done!
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There’s no evidence that Sky are intending to leave the market completely, this seems to be a significant amount of wishful thinking on your part.
Sky have called the market perfectly in the last two rights auctions for Premier League rights, despite the Premier League trying to magic up from nowhere a stalking horse bidder from a non-existent streamer.
Indeed, it brings us back to the age old question of what a streamer brings to the table that Sky doesn’t?
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26-10-2021, 21:31
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#452
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Re: Streaming services news, offers and general chit chat
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Is choice “plentiful” or is everyone chasing the best price from the same half dozen independent studios or having to invest in their own?
After all there’s only a finite amount of actors, narrators, directors, producers, etc before you start scraping the barrel quality wise.
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Frankly, I tend to watch the originals in the main, which provide me with an excellent choice of viewing.
Incidentally, there are plenty of talented actors and so on who are unemployed, and even many well known actors can struggle to find work between productions. We’re nowhere near experiencing any shortages yet.
What is more, we already have an abundant choice which we did not have before the streamers came along.
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26-10-2021, 21:52
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#453
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Re: Streaming services news, offers and general chit chat
I can't say too much but SKY want to expand on their iptv route.
So take from that what you will.
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26-10-2021, 21:56
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#454
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Re: Streaming services news, offers and general chit chat
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
There’s no evidence that Sky are intending to leave the market completely, this seems to be a significant amount of wishful thinking on your part.
Sky have called the market perfectly in the last two rights auctions for Premier League rights, despite the Premier League trying to magic up from nowhere a stalking horse bidder from a non-existent streamer.
Indeed, it brings us back to the age old question of what a streamer brings to the table that Sky doesn’t?
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I don’t believe for one moment that Sky want to leave the market. All they have said is that there is a limit to how much they will bid for rights to the Premier League.
I am relaxed about who provides sports content in this country - I don’t watch it and I don’t care. I have merely shared my thoughts on what I think will happen, which is that sooner or later the streamers will take over.
All the streamers bring to the market is financial clout and better ideas on how the rights they acquire could be maximised by bringing sports to a wider audience and possibly by selling merchandise - not to mention take up for other services provided on their platforms. That’s why I am beginning to think there may be better value here for Amazon, Disney and Discovery. However, it is fair to say that Comcast is in a similar position now it has acquired Sky.
Whatever happens, streaming will end up being used for the delivery of the Premier League. The transfer to streaming will be slower if Comcast successfully bids because they have a satellite service and there is no necessity to disrupt that while the satellite service is maintained. Even if streamers successfully bid, they may set up channels temporarily until our broadband system is better, but my view is that they will close those channels in favour of ‘streaming only’ at their earliest opportunity.
By the way, I think we all know that you disagree with that. So we’ll have to wait and see, won’t we?
---------- Post added at 20:56 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legendkiller2k
I can't say too much but SKY want to expand on their iptv route.
So take from that what you will.
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It’s becoming more apparent by the day that this is Sky’s intention. They may close their satellite service altogether sometime in the 2030s.
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26-10-2021, 22:22
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#455
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Re: Streaming services news, offers and general chit chat
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
I don’t believe for one moment that Sky want to leave the market. All they have said is that there is a limit to how much they will bid for rights to the Premier League.
I am relaxed about who provides sports content in this country - I don’t watch it and I don’t care. I have merely shared my thoughts on what I think will happen, which is that sooner or later the streamers will take over.
All the streamers bring to the market is financial clout and better ideas on how the rights they acquire could be maximised by bringing sports to a wider audience and possibly by selling merchandise - not to mention take up for other services provided on their platforms. That’s why I am beginning to think there may be better value here for Amazon, Disney and Discovery. However, it is fair to say that Comcast is in a similar position now it has acquired Sky.
Whatever happens, streaming will end up being used for the delivery of the Premier League. The transfer to streaming will be slower if Comcast successfully bids because they have a satellite service and there is no necessity to disrupt that while the satellite service is maintained. Even if streamers successfully bid, they may set up channels temporarily until our broadband system is better, but my view is that they will close those channels in favour of ‘streaming only’ at their earliest opportunity.
By the way, I think we all know that you disagree with that. So we’ll have to wait and see, won’t we?
---------- Post added at 20:56 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------
It’s becoming more apparent by the day that this is Sky’s intention. They may close their satellite service altogether sometime in the 2030s.
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Well yes, I’ll disagree.
DAZN appear to be regretting their sojourn into boxing and other secondary rights, recognising (as Sky do) that it’s the top dollar rights that bring in customers month in, month out.
Saul Alvarez vs Caleb Plant is on BT Sport Box Office in the UK when that should naturally be part of their ambitions. Eddie Hearn appears to have more limited funds at his disposal, and influence, in the North American market as ESPN and others go from strength to strength.
I’m not sure how we have moved from “deep pockets” to “market clout” I’m intrigued to know what the difference is. Is it, as I’ve been bleating on for what appears to be decades, a viable business model?
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28-10-2021, 00:34
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#457
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Re: Streaming services news, offers and general chit chat
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Well yes, I’ll disagree.
DAZN appear to be regretting their sojourn into boxing and other secondary rights, recognising (as Sky do) that it’s the top dollar rights that bring in customers month in, month out.
Saul Alvarez vs Caleb Plant is on BT Sport Box Office in the UK when that should naturally be part of their ambitions. Eddie Hearn appears to have more limited funds at his disposal, and influence, in the North American market as ESPN and others go from strength to strength.
I’m not sure how we have moved from “deep pockets” to “market clout” I’m intrigued to know what the difference is. Is it, as I’ve been bleating on for what appears to be decades, a viable business model?
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I said ‘financial clout’. I haven’t moved anything; you just misquote, misinterpret, misrepresent and then claim the other person has changed their position.
As for your ‘business models’ - they just need to make a profit, as Sky and BT do. I don’t know why you cannot see how the streamers can make money out of this when the channel operators can - the whole idea that streamers cannot do this is absurd.
I doubt you know what their business models are anyway!
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28-10-2021, 00:54
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#458
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Re: Streaming services news, offers and general chit chat
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
I said ‘financial clout’. I haven’t moved anything; you just misquote, misinterpret, misrepresent and then claim the other person has changed their position.
As for your ‘business models’ - they just need to make a profit, as Sky and BT do. I don’t know why you cannot see how the streamers can make money out of this when the channel operators can - the whole idea that streamers cannot do this is absurd.
I doubt you know what their business models are anyway!
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No bids, OB - except the bargain bucket rights Sky/BT didn’t want. If it’s that easy where were bids? I’m sure they know their business models better than both of us.
“Just need to make a profit” didn’t serve ITV Digital or Setanta well, or ESPN after them. The idea that it is easy is misplaced. Indeed, the blind bidding process is designed to maximise the costs of the rights minimising the profits for the bidder(s) in a competitive auction. Someone bids too much for everyone else. In the case of Sky and BT to date - too much for Amazon, Netflix, Google, Facebook, DAZN, etc.
---------- Post added at 23:54 ---------- Previous post was at 23:53 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11
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Strange pricing - I guess the question is how well “bundles” come out and what retentions look like.
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28-10-2021, 09:15
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#459
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Re: Streaming services news, offers and general chit chat
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Absolutely agree - but don't think this means "they are both likely to pull out of the market altogether before long."
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Surely that depends on how much the streamers are prepared to pay to dislodge Sky.
---------- Post added at 08:15 ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
No bids, OB - except the bargain bucket rights Sky/BT didn’t want. If it’s that easy where were bids? I’m sure they know their business models better than both of us.
“Just need to make a profit” didn’t serve ITV Digital or Setanta well, or ESPN after them. The idea that it is easy is misplaced. Indeed, the blind bidding process is designed to maximise the costs of the rights minimising the profits for the bidder(s) in a competitive auction. Someone bids too much for everyone else. In the case of Sky and BT to date - too much for Amazon, Netflix, Google, Facebook, DAZN, etc.
---------- Post added at 23:54 ---------- Previous post was at 23:53 ----------
Strange pricing - I guess the question is how well “bundles” come out and what retentions look like.
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Well, we've argued this before, and as I keep reminding you, the fact it hasn't happened yet means nothing at all. Things change. Broadband connectivity improves.
We all know you disagree, on most things as it happens, so perhaps we should just leave it there. Others can judge who is right, and events will prove it one way or the other.
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28-10-2021, 10:44
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#460
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Re: Streaming services news, offers and general chit chat
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
We all know you disagree, on most things as it happens, so perhaps we should just leave it there. Others can judge who is right, and events will prove it one way or the other.
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That goes for all of us.
No discussion equals no forums though. It's about balance between repeating the same things, and doing it so much it gets unnecessarily ill-natured. If that happens too much and people walk away, the viewpoints get narrower, it maybe becomes an echo chamber and/or it may ultimately close.
Reading many forums over the years they often become infinite loops, and it can be off-putting, for existing and new contributors.
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28-10-2021, 12:02
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#461
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Re: Streaming services news, offers and general chit chat
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Surely that depends on how much the streamers are prepared to pay to dislodge Sky.
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In the absence of a viable business model probably not very much.
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Well, we've argued this before, and as I keep reminding you, the fact it hasn't happened yet means nothing at all. Things change. Broadband connectivity improves.
We all know you disagree, on most things as it happens, so perhaps we should just leave it there. Others can judge who is right, and events will prove it one way or the other.
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The technology change represents zero opportunity for additional revenue streams compared to Sky who already retail via Now.
I think OB that sadly you have been pushing this mantra so far, for so long, that you’ve gone down the rabbit hole. In the boardrooms of these multinational conglomerates they don’t feel as strongly as you do about delivery methods - which is all streaming is television over broadband.
There’s no supernatural force out there that gives a company that is restrictive about how it reaches it’s customer base additional revenues over one completely agnostic. The fact DAZN are looking to spend billions on BT Sport rather than enter blind rights auctions and roll the dice themselves is evidence enough.
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28-10-2021, 13:08
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#462
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Re: Streaming services news, offers and general chit chat
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Surely that depends on how much the streamers are prepared to pay to dislodge Sky
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Your assertion was that "they [Sky and BT] are both likely to pull out of the [sports TV] market altogether before long."
You've provided no evidence to support your assertion that Sky intend to pull out of the sports TV market.
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28-10-2021, 14:23
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#463
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Re: Streaming services news, offers and general chit chat
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Your assertion was that "they [Sky and BT] are both likely to pull out of the [sports TV] market altogether before long."
You've provided no evidence to support your assertion that Sky intend to pull out of the sports TV market.
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SKY have no intention of pulling out of sports, they have plans in place until at least 2040 )presuming SKY is still around then).
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28-10-2021, 14:40
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#464
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Re: Streaming services news, offers and general chit chat
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
I don’t believe for one moment that Sky want to leave the market. All they have said is that there is a limit to how much they will bid for rights to the Premier League.
I am relaxed about who provides sports content in this country - I don’t watch it and I don’t care. I have merely shared my thoughts on what I think will happen, which is that sooner or later the streamers will take over.
All the streamers bring to the market is financial clout and better ideas on how the rights they acquire could be maximised by bringing sports to a wider audience and possibly by selling merchandise - not to mention take up for other services provided on their platforms. That’s why I am beginning to think there may be better value here for Amazon, Disney and Discovery. However, it is fair to say that Comcast is in a similar position now it has acquired Sky.
Whatever happens, streaming will end up being used for the delivery of the Premier League. The transfer to streaming will be slower if Comcast successfully bids because they have a satellite service and there is no necessity to disrupt that while the satellite service is maintained. Even if streamers successfully bid, they may set up channels temporarily until our broadband system is better, but my view is that they will close those channels in favour of ‘streaming only’ at their earliest opportunity.
By the way, I think we all know that you disagree with that. So we’ll have to wait and see, won’t we?
---------- Post added at 20:56 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------
It’s becoming more apparent by the day that this is Sky’s intention. They may close their satellite service altogether sometime in the 2030s.
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Or 2040s, 2050s, 2060s etc etc.
Only thing that changes are that your predictions are getting more vague.
Sky's whole business plan has been built around Premier League football - they have survived the loss of Champions League, Premiership Rugby, Autumn Rugby Internationals and a lot of Southern Hemisphere sport.
Yes they are looking at providing their content via broadband - this has been coming for years and is aimed primarily at those who cannot (or don't want) have a dish on their house. If anything I see this as a move to take customers off Virgin
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28-10-2021, 14:55
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#465
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Architect of Ideas
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Re: Streaming services news, offers and general chit chat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider999
Or 2040s, 2050s, 2060s etc etc.
Only thing that changes are that your predictions are getting more vague.
Sky's whole business plan has been built around Premier League football - they have survived the loss of Champions League, Premiership Rugby, Autumn Rugby Internationals and a lot of Southern Hemisphere sport.
Yes they are looking at providing their content via broadband - this has been coming for years and is aimed primarily at those who cannot (or don't want) have a dish on their house. If anything I see this as a move to take customers off Virgin
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Indeed, I missed this bit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Whatever happens, streaming will end up being used for the delivery of the Premier League.
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It already is for anyone who wants it.
I do find it odd that OB has been pining for everything all in one place delivered over the internet and when Sky (through Sky Glass) pull it off with their own service and all the major streamers he’s not happy.
Last edited by jfman; 28-10-2021 at 14:59.
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