Backlash as BBC teaches NINE year olds there is 100 Genders

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

"Excision of our history"?

There is no excision of history, just a fuller re-telling, which includes the bits some people would rather not have discussed, as it doesn’t show our past in the idealised light they would prefer...

An example would be the Battle of Britain - because most people’s idea of the BoB is what they have seen in British films of the 50s and 60s (and the Biggles etc. books), and the "Commando"-type comics of the 60s and 70s, they believe that the BoB was won by the upper-middle class English officers, with some support from working-class Scottish or Cockney mechanics.

The facts are that 20% of BoB pilots were from outside the U.K.(half of those from Europe), 5 of the 10 leading "Aces" during the BoB were from outside the U.K., and 1/3 of the pilots were Sergeant Pilots, from the working & middle classes.

Also, Hurricanes shot down more German planes than the Spitfire.

This isn’t excising the efforts made by Spitfires and the Officers who piloted them, just showing a fuller picture.

None of that is hidden, if you’re curious about history and especially WWII TV there is lots of literature and other material you can research if you want to, I also disagree the above shows our country in a bad light.

War is always depicted in a glossy format for the masses as the truth is probably too much for most to take.

I recommend anyone interested in WWI to listen to the excellent Dan Carlin series Blueprint for Armageddon and for the Pacific theatre of WWII Supernova in the East. You get the full picture.

---------- Post added at 09:33 ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Yes, but that’s not what is seen as ‘history" - the Spitfire is seen as the main reason we won the BoB, rather than the reality.

Who Shot Liberty Valance - "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend".

Which itself is incorrect, the main reason we won BoB is that the Luftwaffe underestimated the number of planes we had and overestimated their advantage. We were also replacing our losses at a much greater rate than they were. The ME109 also had a short range and a very limited flight time over the UK and channel.

To say that the main reason we won the BoB was Hurricanes and working class pilots is also as simplistic and incorrect as saying it was Spitfires and toffee nosed fops

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

No. The officers flew the Spitfires and the flight sergeants flew the Hurricanes.


---------- Post added at 09:19 ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 ----------



No surprise, really when the legendary ME109 pilot, Adolf Galland, when asked by Goering what he needed, said "Herr Reichsmarschall, a squadron of Spitfires!".

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...d-1318925.html

Common misconception, but not an accurate one.

https://www.spitfireassociation.com/...Harold-Charles

https://www.bbm.org.uk/airmen/CookH.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Kingaby

https://www.bbm.org.uk/airmen/WilkinsonKA.htm

Here's a picture of a Spitfire Sergeant Pilot with some officers

https://battleofbritain.rafa.org.uk/...s-fowlmere.jpg

---------- Post added at 11:13 ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

None of that is hidden, if you’re curious about history and especially WWII TV there is lots of literature and other material you can research if you want to, I also disagree the above shows our country in a bad light.

War is always depicted in a glossy format for the masses as the truth is probably too much for most to take.

I recommend anyone interested in WWI to listen to the excellent Dan Carlin series Blueprint for Armageddon and for the Pacific theatre of WWII Supernova in the East. You get the full picture.

---------- Post added at 09:33 ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 ----------

Which itself is incorrect, the main reason we won BoB is that the Luftwaffe underestimated the number of planes we had and overestimated their advantage. We were also replacing our losses at a much greater rate than they were. The ME109 also had a short range and a very limited flight time over the UK and channel.

To say that the main reason we won the BoB was Hurricanes and working class pilots is also as simplistic and incorrect as saying it was Spitfires and toffee nosed fops

And it would be, if it had been said...

What was said was

Also, Hurricanes shot down more German planes than the Spitfire.

I was refuting the common myth that Spitfires won the Battle of Britain, not replacing it with another incorrect myth.

I didn't say the Spitfire was the main reason we won the BoB (in fact, my entire post was refuting that point), I said it was seen as the main reason - myth over actuality.

I didn't mention the Chain Radar either, but that didn't mean it wasn't an equally valuable contribution.

[Sephiroth]

Better, then, to get the Woke Brigade onto this and sort out the role of the lower classes in defeating the Nazi Luftwaffe (knocking Churchill's statue down first, of course.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Better, then, to get the Woke Brigade onto this and sort out the role of the lower classes in defeating the Nazi Luftwaffe (knocking Churchill's statue down first, of course.

Ironically, the RAF were the most egalitarian (woke) of all the military services.

I would shout topic but I'm not quite sure what it is anymore

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Angua

Ironically, the RAF were the most egalitarian (woke) of all the military services.

Ah - but in those days, "they" meant "they" not he or her in the singular.

---------- Post added at 16:15 ---------- Previous post was at 16:14 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy

I would shout topic but I'm not quite sure what it is anymore

The topic leads naturally into the "woke" discussion.

Btw, a Mod who is not sure ....

"They" has meant "he" or "her" in the singular since before Shakespeare...

A Comedy of Errors, Act IV, Scene 3:

There's not a man I meet but doth salute me
As if I were their well-acquainted friend

And the Oxford English Dictionary states

The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular they back to 1375

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49754930

Examples of the singular "they" being used to describe someone features as early as 1386 in Geoffrey Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales and also in famous literary works like Shakespeare's Hamlet in 1599.

"They" and "them" were still being used by literary authors to describe people in the 17th Century too - including by Jane Austin in her 1813 novel Pride and Prejudice.

[Sephiroth]

Comedy of error is about right.

[Mad Max]

This thread has descended into territory

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Comedy of error is about right.

About right as not being an example of they or them being used in the singular.

Not a man I meet implies more than 1.

There’s someone outside who would like a word with you.

What do they want?

or

An employee will not do a good job if they don’t have the right training.

or

Someone was just here and they left their phone behind.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Hugh

There’s someone outside who would like a word with you.

What do they want?

or

An employee will not do a good job if they don’t have the right training.

or

Someone was just here and they left their phone behind.

Happy to see you now know how to give correct examples.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

There’s someone outside who would like a word with you.

What do they want?

or

An employee will not do a good job if they don’t have the right training.

or

Someone was just here and they left their phone behind.

I understand the examples, of referring to an indeterminate person you don’t know.

Change, somebody and employee for Dave or Julie.

If I introduced myself to you as Pierre and then asked to referred to They/ Them, doesn’t work the same way.

[Mr K]

I must say this is all incredibly fascinating....

Just be nice to each other is never a bad start. Gender(s) are irrelevant in comparison and a matter for you alone.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I must say this is all incredibly fascinating....

Just be nice to each other is never a bad start. Gender(s) are irrelevant in comparison and a matter for you alone.

Heard something the other day which makes sense. The right have largely won the economic arguments (market economy) and the left have largely won the cultural arguments (equality, inclusion, etc).