Will Scotland Leave the UK?

[Hom3r]

Well if they do go independent they should NOT be allowed to keep Sterling.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

My late grandad was born in Glasgow (Gorbals), but grew up in Edinburgh.

He fought in WWII to defend the UK and not Scotland, he would be spinning in his grave at how the SNP are attempting to destroy the Union and bankrupt Scotland.

I would like to know how the SNP will fund all of Scotland needs with 5.46 million people, bearing in mind roughly 1/2 of these will not be taxpayers. (bearing in mind London has a population of 9.3 million).

They would lose their free prescriptions to start, would they be allowed to keep and use Stirling, I guess the Army they would have to pay for, and we should protect the waters around the island.

But what about the border, Scotland would be in neither the UK nor EU, so would need some kind of ID to enter the UK to access the ports to Europe in the South.

Not to mention the loss of the Barnett formula, declining revenue from North Sea oil and the cost of all those new government departments they’d have to set up.

The SNP does not appear to have a plan on how to make up the huge revenue deficiency that would arise from separation.

Incidentally, the analogy with Brexit is just plain wrong. Most Brexiteers saw either better job prospects for themselves or better global trading opportunities. They did not vote to be poorer. That was just Remainer hype.

Anyone who thinks that Boris leaving would make any difference is living in fantasy land.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Paul

Anyone who thinks that Boris leaving would make any difference is living in fantasy land.

Quite. It’s the English that are their perceived problem.

They begged to be part of us a few hundred years ago when they were bankrupt.

What will happen next time they ask, when they realise they can’t make it on their own?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Paul

Anyone who thinks that Boris leaving would make any difference is living in fantasy land.

Others disagree. Stephen Glover for example. Look at the evidence - two key issues fanning independence are Boris and Brexit. We can't change the folly of Brexit but we can change Boris.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Others disagree. Stephen Glover for example. Look at the evidence - two key issues fanning independence are Boris and Brexit. We can't change the folly of Brexit but we can change Boris.

So there was no appetite for independence before Boris or Brexit?

No, andrew just likes to argue with everything, I think hes jfmans twin brother

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Paul

No, andrew just likes to argue with everything, I think hes jfmans twin brother

Isn't that what threads like this are for?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

So there was no appetite for independence before Boris or Brexit?

Can you show me where I said there was no appetite for independence before Boris or Brexit?
---------- Post added at 23:43 ---------- Previous post was at 23:40 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Isn't that what threads like this are for?

I agree, Seph, but equally I accept that others may not agree with us.

[djfunkdup]

Originally Posted by Paul

No, andrew just likes to argue with everything, I think hes jfmans twin brother

Sounds more like his Wife if you ask me ...

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Isn't that what threads like this are for?

I don’t think so, Seph, I think these forums are for discussions, not nitpicking arguments.

---------- Post added at 12:00 ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Can you show me where I said there was no appetite for independence before Boris or Brexit? [

You implied it, Andrew, by saying that Boris and Brexit were the problems preventing the Scots from voting for the union.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You implied it, Andrew, by saying that Boris and Brexit were the problems preventing the Scots from voting for the union.

I didn't say or imply that which is why Nomad King was unable to answer my question. I said "two key issues fanning independence are Boris and Brexit". Perhaps I should have typed a longer sentence like ""two key issues fanning the flames of independence are Boris and Brexit" to avoid any misunderstanding.

That doesn't mean that there wasn't an independence movement around before these two aspects came into play. There clearly was as there was a referendum in 2014.

---------- Post added at 12:11 ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I don’t think so, Seph, I think these forums are for discussions, not nitpicking arguments

Citing two articles which point out that Boris is unpopular in Scotland and is therefore increasing the independence vote is not nick-picking in my book but I appreciate that you may see it differently.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I didn't say or imply that which is why Nomad King was unable to answer my question. I said "two key issues fanning independence are Boris and Brexit". Perhaps I should have typed a longer sentence like ""two key issues fanning the flames of independence are Boris and Brexit" to avoid any misunderstanding.

That doesn't mean that there wasn't an independence movement around before these two aspects came into play. There clearly was as there was a referendum in 2014.

Which is why if we didn’t have Boris and Brexit, the whining of the separatists would continue anyhoo! They will always find an excuse for yet another referendum!

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Which is why if we didn’t have Boris and Brexit, the whining of the separatists would continue anyhoo! They will always find an excuse for yet another referendum!

I agree that Scottish Nationalists would continue to make their case, but there seems to be a correlation between Brexit and BoJo and the rise in Scottish nationalism.

The fact that both are unpopular north of the border and that polls are now tilting in favour of independence cannot be denied.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I agree that Scottish Nationalists would continue to make their case, but there seems to be a correlation between Brexit and BoJo and the rise in Scottish nationalism.

The fact that both are unpopular north of the border and that polls are now tilting in favour of independence cannot be denied.

There is some detailed polling here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-55803103

The rise in support for independence is not being driven by the completion of Brexit; that was priced in after the 2016 referendum. The way the covid crisis has unfolded and perceptions of how Sturgeon and Boris have handled it are at the root of current polling.

Polls like these are largely driven by emotional considerations. Hard practicalities are faced in the polling booth - this is why opposition parties poll well mid-term and then go on to lose the next election. We all like to believe the grass might be greener but when it’s decision time we need to be pretty sure it is before we take the leap.

The fundamentals that drove the vote in 2014 haven’t changed. Scotland would pay an exorbitant bill for taking itself out of the UK and would face social and economic upheaval in its relationship with England that would make the problems we presently face at the channel ports look like a Wednesday afternoon in Trumpton. Every single argument against Brexit can be levelled against Scexit, except it’s exponentially worse, because Scotland’s economic and social ties to England run far deeper than those of the UK to the EU, while Scotland’s resources deployable in mitigation of the upheaval are far less. Yet these sorts of questions tend not to be addressed by people answering opinion polls.