Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[NTLVictim]

Originally Posted by bluecar1

?


my answer is "NO i have nothing to hide, I JUST OBJECT TO BEING SPIED ON"

peter

I fancy taking them for a few quid and getting the rodent fired..

[AlexanderHanff]

PIA Update

A lot of people have been sending me PMs asking about the PIA Final Report so I have spoken to Simon on the phone this afternoon and he told me 80/20 Thinking will be finished with the PIA no later than 13th June 2008 as they have other commitments beyond this date which will make it impossible to work on the PIA after this date.

He did also ask me to mention though that despite 80/20 Thinking finishing the PIA this doesn't necessarily mean we will see it. It is up to Phorm to publish the PIA and 80/20 Thinking certainly would not be allowed to publish it independently. Simon is going to try and get an expected date of publish from Phorm though and will get back to me.

I have had a hell of a day so far today answering a lot of questions and emails, so please forgive me if I am a little slow to reply to any queries. I will be away in London tomorrow and most of Wednesday so it is unlikely I will be able to respond to anything during that time.

Alexander Hanff

[Deko]

I would expect the PIA not to be made public in full just selected quotes that suit phorm.

[BetBlowWhistler]

I'm still on page 488 after a week off, so if this has been mentioned in the previous several hundred posts - apologies

For soundbyte use -> 198Phorm :P

[jelv]

As long as we get confirmation from 80/20 that the PIA has been delivered to Phorm, I would not be bothered if it never saw the light of day. In fact I would be highly delighted if the full text was not published - it would be confirmation that it was detrimental to Phorm's case and we would be able to have endless hours speculating on how critical it was.

If it is along the lines we expect, Phorm will be in a lose, lose situation: publishing would damage their case, not publishing would damage their case.

What they will probably do is publish selective quotes. We need to have ready examples from the past where they have selectively quoted in such a way that it changed the meaning.

[Dephormation]

Regards that Home Office PDF advice document, I've done some digging;

11 March 2008 16:58 - Nicholas Bohm first mentions receiving a Home Office document on UK Crypto
11 March 2008 17:38:37 GMT - last modified date of ho-phorm.pdf (using 'HEAD' request to Cryptome)
11 March 2008 18:02:53 GMT - Simon Watkin pastes the entire text of the PDF document into a post to UK Crypto
11 March 2008 18:19:59 GMT - last modified date of ho-phorm.htm (using 'HEAD' request to Cryptome). A cut/pase of Watkin's post.
11 March 2008 18:27:01 GMT - First mention of the PDF on UK Crypto mailing list by Dr Richard Clayton


"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time" Abraham Lincoln

"You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on" George W. Bush

[icsys]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

PIA UpdateHe did also ask me to mention though that despite 80/20 Thinking finishing the PIA this doesn't necessarily mean we will see it. It is up to Phorm to publish the PIA and 80/20 Thinking certainly would not be allowed to publish it independently. Simon is going to try and get an expected date of publish from Phorm though and will get back to me.

Alexander Hanff

Thanks for the update.

As it is up to Phorm to publish the PIA I expect it will either not be or as Deko said ... I would expect the PIA not to be made public in full just selected quotes that suit phorm. However, it would be in their interest to publish the full article.

Hopefully there will be a possibility of it getting 'leaked' at some future date should it not see the light of day.

Originally Posted by jelv

As long as we get confirmation from 80/20 that the PIA has been delivered to Phorm, I would not be bothered if it never saw the light of day. In fact I would be highly delighted if the full text was not published - it would be confirmation that it was detrimental to Phorm's case and we would be able to have endless hours speculating on how critical it was.

How very true and something I had not thought of.

Publish and be damned....
Don't publish and be damned...

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by icsys

Thanks for the update.

As it is up to Phorm to publish the PIA I expect it will either not be or as Deko said ... I would expect the PIA not to be made public in full just selected quotes that suit phorm. However, it would be in their interest to publish the full article.

Hopefully there there will be a possibility of it getting 'leaked' at some future date should it not see the light of day.


How very true and something I had not thought of.

Publish and be damned....
Don't publish and be damned...

It would be worth trawling the net for all the instances where the Ernst and Young report or the interim PIA is quoted and/or where reference is made to the forthcoming late stage PIA, and then pressing the author pubicly for publication of the text they were touting in that previous post/article/website. Might as well make it as embarrassing for them as possible.

We will certainly be chasing BT to "reassure" us with the full text of the PIA which of course they won't be able to do.

[Deko]

Dephormation the super slueth :-)

[bluecar1]

i have started writing the unofficial PIA, on thing that seems to recur is comments about the ernst and young report only looking at US law for privacy not outside the US, and also that there needs to be another privacy audit to ensure the product / technology complies with all the relevant EU laws??

it's interesting when you start delving under the covers

just the bits i have so far are more negative than positive

the trick is trying to keep it balanced and not looking at things from a purely negative aspect so it will be taken as being objective, not just written to rubbish the product

peter

[icsys]

Heres one instance where there is mention, and anticipation, of the publication of a full PIA “in March 2008″
http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2008/...e-phorm-storm/

To be honest, considering the length of time it is taking, between the actual assessment and the latest publish date (June 13th), which is approximately two months, I would question whether the PIA will be relevant bearing in mind the developments in the area of privacy during that time.

Nicholas Bohm's legal analysis, 23rd April, is published.
Richard Claytons third draft of the webwise system, 18th May, is published.
...Shortly afterwards it transpires there are FOUR redirections occurring! (Fourth draft?)
The way in which webwise is to be delivered (by BT) for the trial has changed several times in light of the ICO's revised statement (it should be opt-in), is hosted outside the BT network (and outside the UK at one point)
The EU Commission states its position in respect of privacy and Phorm.
... the fact that there has to be explicit informed consent from ALL parties - not just acceptance of terms and conditions as suggested by the incompetent Home Office.

Are any of these points likely to be taken into account and feature in the final document?

[AlexanderHanff]

Can anyone planning to attend the AGM as a shareholder or proxy holder please contact me by PM so we can discuss some tactics and how to deal with any security that might attempt to eject you from the meeting.

Alexander Hanff

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by icsys

Heres one instance where there is mention, and anticipation, of the publication of a full PIA “in March 2008″
http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2008/...e-phorm-storm/

To be honest, considering the length of time it is taking, between the actual assessment and the latest publish date (June 13th), which is approximately two months, I would question whether the PIA will be relevant bearing in mind the developments in the area of privacy during that time.

Nicholas Bohm's legal analysis, 23rd April, is published.
Richard Claytons third draft of the webwise system, 18th May, is published.
The way in which webwise is to be delivered (by BT) has changed in light of the ICO statement (it should be opt-in)
The EU Commission states its position in respect of privacy and Phorm.

Are any of these likely to be taken into account in the final document?

may be not, but i am in mine

[Deko]

I am hoping to get some press credentials ready for the BT AGM.

[Florence]

I was sure Alexander said Simon had an agreement if Phorm released part of the PIA report all had to be released, would be interesting to find out if this is true and if 80/20 could make it public if only snippets arrived online that made Phorm look good.

On another note reading on phorm god knows why I still read all i find I have come across this link.
http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/17042008/323...cy-battle.html

If you click on all the ISPs that are planning to implement Phorm have had drops in the share prices.

Does that not tell the ISPs just maybe this is wrong for the companies incase you want to cut through the Kent BS.
BT http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=BT-A.L
VM http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=VMED
CPW http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=CPW.L
just for good measure the one in America using the phorm look alike spy http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=CTL


If you can stand reading the BS enjoy.